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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think a misogynistic man can change?

57 replies

FireflySummer · 11/05/2019 22:12

I’m a 37 year old woman, dating a 38 year old man for the past 6 months. It’s become more apparent recently that he has some misogynistic beliefs. He grew up with few positive female role models and his ex-girlfriend seemed to not mind or notice this.

AIBU to think that I could point out whenever he makes a misogynistic remark, pulling him up on it and explaining and educating him as to why it’s wrong?

Or is it a case of him being this way forever?? In every other respect the relationship is great.

OP posts:

twattymctwatterson · 11/05/2019 22:51

Op, you've basically started a thread saying that the man you're with has hateful beliefs about women but it's ok because you love him and can change him.

HypatiaCade · 11/05/2019 22:52

Hang, on, have you posted about him before? I'm sure I've seen a post about the work colleague dressed 'inappropriately' before....

Original poster

FireflySummer · 11/05/2019 22:54

No not posted about him before. I’m guessing there are several men like this!!

OP posts:

ItsInTheSpoon · 11/05/2019 23:02

He hasn’t commented on anything of mine yet because I think I am a close fit with his ideal of what a woman should look like and dress like.

How likely is it to escalate?!

In my experience a misogynistic man will be fine towards you as long as you are behaving how he wants and expects. It’s if you don’t when it will come out aimed at you.

I’d say run a mile

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 11/05/2019 23:05

Hi OP

I do think some people can change. I think I became a lot more feminist in the last few years (probably since having kids). People are a product of their environment and it is hard to get past that but if they are willing to acknowledge this and think about how to act differently in the future then there is a chance things can change.

Recently my husband was telling me about the head of the legal division in his company. I asked a question about him. He said 'well, she...' and I realised I still make assumptions that I'd get annoyed at other people making. I try and phrase things differently now but still slip up sometimes

My husband comes from a culture where women definitely have a different role to men (though actually his mum was very unconventional in this regard and was the main breadwinner etc). He has changed some behaviour since the me too movement and will now challenge other men that he knows when they say things about what women are wearing etc or call women slags, when in the past hed have let it go

Society can change over time (think of the attitude towards smoking in the last 30 years) and some individuals can change over time, but no one on here will be able to tell you if your bf is open to change

EncroachingLoaf · 11/05/2019 23:05

Do you want to move in together, get married, have kids? Cos that's when his really shitty attitudes will surface and you'll wish you'd never bothered.

Even if it was more of a casual thing I don't think I could be arsed trying to change him. What a fucking hassle.

AnyFucker · 11/05/2019 23:08

Good luck with that

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 11/05/2019 23:10

He is "surprised" when you point out his misogyny because he thinks he has the right to judge and denigrate women based on his ideas of what women ought to be like.

The surprise isn't that he doesn't realise he is being unpleasant and henceforth will stop - he is surprised because he always assumed it was fine to be unpleasant about women if they deserved it.

You won't change him. I wonder why you are so invested in trying?

ShittensAndKittens · 11/05/2019 23:20

He doesn’t think of himself that way.

Of course he doesn't. Misogynists never think that they are misogynists, in the same way that racists rarely believe themselves to be racists, and homophobes don't often think that they are homophobic. It doesn't mean that they aren't, though.

My BIL shared a meme on a family group the other day that was blatantly racist. I've known him for a long time, I'm very fond of him, I'd hate to think of him as being racist. But he clearly is. He'd swear upside down and inside out that he isn't. But clearly he is.

ShittensAndKittens · 11/05/2019 23:24

How likely is it to escalate? Unfortunately nobody here can answer that. If I were you, I'd be extremely put off (actually, tbh, horrified) by him trying to dictate what you can wear. I personally would assume that he's likely to escalate this controlling behaviour. And I personally would run far and fast.

Sparklesocks · 11/05/2019 23:36

I would say yes - in some circumstances, but no in a lot of others.
Maybe if he was early 20s I would say it’s more likely, you’re still forming your world view and your opinions aren’t set - but I do think at 38 you’re pretty much established as ‘you’ and your opinions on the world and people in it are unlikely to change drastically unless something very significant happened to show him the other side.
Obviously each individual is different and might be able to change, but I think I’d struggle to be romantically involved with someone with misogynistic views - especially deeply ingrained ones he doesn’t even realise are offensive. It would just make me think he didn’t see me as an equal, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable.

StealthNinjaMum · 11/05/2019 23:37

This is interesting, Until a year ago I'd say he'd never change. But...

I've changed a lot of my attitudes thanks to the feminist boards here. I am much more aware of women's lack of rights.

Shoxfordian · 11/05/2019 23:38

You're wasting your time dating a misogynist shitbag

chestylarue52 · 12/05/2019 03:07

I'd ask you to think about ideals and beliefs you hold close.

For example, are you pro-choice when it comes to abortion? Do you believe in gay marriage? Are you vegetarian?

I'm not asking you to answer these questions, just to check whether, at the age you are now, can these values be changed?

Greeborising · 12/05/2019 03:11

It will escalate
He has shown you who he is now
You have to make a decision right now as to whether he’s someone you want to be with in the future.
Personally it’s a no

PregnantSea · 12/05/2019 03:12

I think that most people have the capacity to change, they just have to really want to. The question is really whether or not you want to bother being the one to try. It could take years and it might not even work. It's up to you though.

Monty27 · 12/05/2019 03:17

Do you have a refuge nearby? Be safe.

Aquamarine1029 · 12/05/2019 03:40

Why don't you just try to change the tides? You'll have better luck than trying to change him.

Graphista · 12/05/2019 04:07

6 months in this is him on his BEST behaviour and you're already seeing some disturbing thought patterns.

As for your agreeing with him on some of them that would suggest you may have your own misogyny issues to deal with.

He won't improve if anything it's likely he'll get worse which could well include expecting you to behave in certain ways.

Personally I'd have dumped at the first hint BECAUSE it's so early on with him in "best behaviour" mode and he's seemingly not even aware of his prejudices.

You could pose certain scenarios to him and see how he responds, I wouldn't waste my time though.

"Of course he doesn't. Misogynists never think that they are misogynists, in the same way that racists rarely believe themselves to be racists, and homophobes don't often think that they are homophobic" exactly!

"I'm no racist but..."

"I'm no sexist but..."

I doubt he's surprised what he's said is sexist he's surprised you're calling him on it, is aware you're viewing it negatively and so is trying to cover.

At 38 I think it highly unlikely you could change his views.

Such prejudices are generally formed in childhood with a little adjustment in early adulthood but rarely change significantly or genuinely from I'd say late 20's on.

What are his friends and family like? Who does he choose to spend time with? That's also very telling.

Mumminmum · 12/05/2019 07:10

There are so many posters on AIBU who have written to say they wished they had paid attention to the red flags. He is waving a very red flag on a regular basis. Walk away.

TooTrueToBeGood · 12/05/2019 07:23

He very likely will change, for the worse. As he gets more secure in the relationship, the probability is that he will be less reserved in expressing his views and will move on to expecting you to comply with them.

BertrandRussell · 12/05/2019 07:29

He’s 38 and hasn’t come up against any remotely feminist ideas before? What are his friends like?

0ccamsRazor · 12/05/2019 07:32

Seriously?

Why bother?

EnterFunnyNameHere · 12/05/2019 08:10

I think it is possible to change, but only if HE had a sudden realisation and decided to educate himself - not if you were trying to retrain him.

Also - to get to 38 with such apparent surprise he is being a misogynist suggests either he has come across feminists before but dismissed their views (cuz, you know, they were probably slags anyway) or he has such a similarly minded family/group of friends that he's been in an echo chamber.

If the former it's a lost cause, if the latter all you need to do is re-educate him, his family and all his friends who will be reinforcing his existing views... so probably a lost cause then!

ZoeWashburne · 12/05/2019 08:24

“But I can change/ fix him!!!!” is the incantation for a frustration and unhappy relationship. You can cut your loses now or in a couple years. If you ever feel like you need to say this, run. Far and fast.

Also, he actually believes this stuff, not just says it. Have some self-respect.

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