The word ‘outwith’

[HBStowe]

Trying to settle an argument with a colleague. He’s English and works in England, I’m Scottish and work in Scotland (in case it’s relevant).

So... do you use / regularly come across the word ‘outwith’? I.e. ‘If you are trying to email me outwith opening hours please use my personal address’.

My colleague says it’s not a real word. I say it definitely is and I encounter it all the time. Is this a thing? Is it a proper word? I notice it’s underlined in red on my phone which doesn’t bode well, but I am absolutely certain I’ve seen this word in use before in other places.

What’s the verdict MN?

"That's not a real word. Just a made up word op"

Yeh. OP made it up entirely on her own. We're all just agreeing for fun. 🙄

I am clearly a Shakespearean style linguistic innovator

I think sometimes people avoid using plain English in order to pomp themselves up.

Not the first time I've noticed how narrow the perceptions of some people on MN are.

I used it a lot but then noticed it wasn’t recognised by spellcheck and had a crisis of confidence and stopped using it as much. It’s now going to come back into use by me. It’s such a lovely word and really gets to the point.

I’m English but can see Scotland from where I live!

Apologies as haven’t read the whole thread but:

• yes it is a real word, it means the opposite of “within”;

• can everyone please stop saying “outside of” - that is wrong you just need to say “outside”.

I first heard it on mn a few years ago (English, with English lang/lit degree, travelled to Scotland many times but not lived there.)

I like it now but it strikes me as neither fancy nor colloquial/slang but rather a perfectly useful if legal sounding word. I think "outwith the scope of this meeting" sounds good but "outside of normal working hours" works better for that context.

I disagree, Provincial.

"outside" on its own is a physical preposition. "Outside of" is commonly used as a time or legal or metaphorical preposition.

I work in England and we have offices in Scotland. My colleagues in Scotland use the term a lot and we all understand what they're saying although nobody in England says it.

AIBU to think that OP could have found this out quite easily by googling and not by putting an AIBU on Mumsnet?

Then all the people who wrongly thought it was a made up word wouldn't have known they were wrong!

It's totally a word here and agree that it is much more elegant than saying "outside of" or "away from".

Our school handbook has a couple of great examples:

"Where a pupil is found by a member of staff to be using a mobile phone outwith the policy of the school, the phone will be confiscated"

"the school offers a large number of trips and activities outwith the school campus."

I say outwith, but spell check always pulls me up on it so I try not to use it in writing.

I'm also Scottish.

“Stooky”, “jotter” and now “outwith”.

Woah, woah, woah. Hold the bus. A jotter is a jotter is a jotter, surely? What are English school pupils calling their jotters? I hear this word dozens of time each week from my kids "Mum, have you seen my English jotter", "I have to do my homework in my French jotter" and so on. Teachers use it, pupils use it, parents use it.

Exercise book? Homework book? Notebook? Book with paper covers and lined pages?

None as simple and straightforward as jotter.

Scottish but work in England. My current and last boss are Scottish, the entire department use outwith now .

I miss 'adopted as holograph'.

I had a boss in the civil service a million years ago who used to refer to a “cock shy minute”

I would elaborate but I’m just going the messages.

The messages! Love this. I don’t use it myself (I think it’s maybe more of a west coast thing? Not sure tho?) but my husband’s granny does and I think it’s so sweet.

Donkey, jotter comes up as an unknown word on our report system in school!

I want to know what "stookie" is, but guessed "jotter" was a notebook?

English would say "notebook" for a personal item and "exercise book" in school. (Did you have a "rough book" in junior school? For planning/rough workings out etc.)

Absolutely not trying to be English-centric or anti-Scottish, but surely when you buy an exercise book or notepad, that's what is written on it, not jotter?

(Same with cordial or squash, that's what's written on it, not diluting juice? )

I know jotter. It was called a rough book in my primary school and secondary English lessons but jotter was an alternative name we all knew. That was in Bristol.

And you can’t buy a rough book, or daps, or spring onions in the shop, but that’s what they are!

My DP is from south of England and they all called them jotters at school! Thank god!

(Devon to be more specific)

Cool. I think jotter might be used more widely than some of the other examples.

Spring onions are called spring onions on the tags/packets when I buy them!

Still need to know what is a "stookie"?

It's a plaster cast for when you break a bone. Getting your stookie signed was a major event!