To ask what sacrifices you make for the environment

[HarryElephante]

So, do you make any? And I mean actual sacrifices. Not just putting recycling outside your front door or re-using old shopping bags.

And for the sake of this question, I will assume you agree we are harming the planet. If you don't agree that is for another thread!

I make annoyingly few sacrifices but am going to start.

Actually you are quite wrong to think that the rich won’t suffer if populations decide to favour ecological/local etc. Consumer goods companies and agribusiness would suffer hugely if humans boycotted them in favour of non packaged and processed goods.

I don't have kids, a car, a tumble drier or eat much meat or dairy. I use bar soap plus reusable face wipes and sanitary towels. I have a reusable cup and glass straws. I don't buy coffees or fly hardly ever and I bring my own lunch most days (so less plastic etc.). I don't buy electronics or furniture unless really needed (use everything till it's fully broken or buy second-hand etc.)

But tbh I don't think I'm sacrificing anything as I don't really want to do any of those things anyway.

If I was really eco-friendly I guess I'd eat all local and not use any chemicals in my house etc. Also wouldn't have a pet or buy any non-secondhand clothes. So those things I need to work on (not giving up my cat though, I love her!)

I agree though fish I don't think just expecting people to do stuff on an individual level works, you need policy and companies need to change the way they do things too otherwise it's all just pissing in the wind IMO.

I don't think just expecting people to do stuff on an individual level works, you need policy and companies need to change the way they do things too otherwise it's all just pissing in the wind IMO

Reducing meat consumption by half is very much in our control. Or are people waiting for the government to tax it to the hilt, so it's forced upon them?

exactly the ruling classes depend on the peasants being good obedient consumers and spending all their money on shit they don't need

I don't really eat meat harry but I just think in general we can't just rely on individuals to solve such a massive problem. Maybe taxing meat isn't such a bad idea (wouldn't be popular mind you!)

One thing I would definitely like to see is cheaper and better public transport.

To actually answer the question, I don’t make any sacrifices. I do a lot of what previous posters have said but none of them are true sacrifices.

The big sacrifice for me would be to stop travelling by plane. I live in the US so would only make this sacrifice (and it would be a big one as I love to travel) if I moved home to the U.K.

yes to political incentives.

where I live now, driving is very expensive and inconvenient but public transport is frequent and comfortable. and cycling is safe.

household waste is expensive: we pay a yearly fee plus a fee per lift plus a fee per kilo of waste. recycling is free however.

We could do a lot to discourage excessive meat consumption - mainly by insisting on as high welfare for imports as we insist for British meat and tariffs for high air miles. It is ridiculous that I can buy a chicken from South America for less money than a chicken from the UK.

Don't have kids and have a one-bed flat. Only been on a plane six times (ie, three there and back flights) all short haul. All other holidays UK or Ireland. Never have take out tea or coffee. No tumble drier. Never buy anything "just because" only when it's irreparable or no use. I would use public transport more but it's not great here (semi-rural) so I do have a car but it is the lowest emissions of petrol vehicles and a little 1 litre runaround that does 60 mpg. I can't afford an electric car but would if I could.

Recycle or reuse most or everything I can.
Make my own compost for the garden.
Will shortly be going vegetarian though I don’t eat much meat anyway.
Won’t use the tumble dryer on days when washing can be hung out.
Wear clothes again and again until they are worn out or give to charity shops. I never throw clothing away unless it’s completely ruined.
Have started growing my own veg and some fruit.

I need to:
Cut down on dairy.
Cut down on the amount of soap and shampoo bottles I use, I’m very inspired by this thread to start using soap/shampoo bars.
Cut down on the amount of plastic packaged food, especially the garbage that fills up lunch boxes.

I also plant trees in my local park or on wasteland. I grow them myself from seeds or cuttings and when they’re a good height I take myself off to a suitable spot armed with a spade and some compost to help get the tree going. I see it as leaving behind something useful when I am long gone and hopefully the trees will be left to grow for many years. I was very inspired by this site
www.treehealthcare.co.uk/guerrilla-planting/

I think taxing meat just hits the poor the rich can still afford it poor people already have a much much lower carbon footprint even when they eat meat often rich people do far more damaging things like have 4 children fly several times a year heating large houses and think preaching to the poor about recycling eating vegan etc
you can't expect other people to make changes to compensate for the huge carbon footprint of the hypocritical green elite
4 pints (2.27 litres) of milk from tesco is 1.00 4 pints of oatmilk is 3.51 (1.55 for a litre) it is completely unaffordable for the poor

you can't expect other people to make changes to compensate for the huge carbon footprint of the hypocritical green elite
exactly. Making people feel guilty about an odd take-away drink or a rare holiday abroad.

I think taxing meat just hits the poor

Most measures will always hit the poor first. If you really want to stop people eating meat, you have to make it prohibitively expensive, if you want to stop people flying, again, you have to make it more expensive than the alternatives. People, in general, will not choose not to do things that are inconvenient to their lifestyle.

The government (or supermarkets) could choose to subsidise sustainable alternative dairy (i.e. not almond), but they won't unless there's a majority sway for that and unfortunately the people who it would benefit the most are the least likely to vote for it.

Hmmm.

Didn't replace the tumble dryer when it broke
Reduced from 2 cars to 1 and walk short journeys
Stopped buying cling film 😬
Don't fly much
Switched to solid soap and shampoo
Had mooncup for donkeys years
Try to avoid bottled water, plastic food packaging but it's hard!

I don't think you have to necessarily make sacrifices but we do make changes to how we do things.
A lot of changes aren't a sacrifice but do need a bit of thought or planning rather than defaulting to the easiest option.
Also if you make a change rather than a sacrifice then you are more likely to stick to it.
Lots of small changes do make a difference and can make it easier for people psychologically to make bigger changes in the long term.
I now consciously consider a products packaging when I'm buying stuff, I'm better at planning what I buy and avoiding waste. I consciously think 'do I actually need this?' and it's surprising how often the answer is no not really. I don't automatically change something for a greener option as I think about the embodied energy/disposal of the product I already have. I'm conscious about where my products / food etc come from.
We made bigger changes to our energy consumption through insulation, smart individual thermostat controls, solar panels and new boiler, and I drive a PHEV (after selling my 13yo car as it was no longer big enough)
I also encourage my clients to upgrade the fabric of their buildings when doing building projects to reduce consumption and save money.

Most measures will always hit the poor first. If you really want to stop people eating meat, you have to make it prohibitively expensive, if you want to stop people flying, again, you have to make it more expensive than the alternatives. People, in general, will not choose not to do things that are inconvenient to their lifestyle.
Plant-based alternatives are not exactly good for the environment. In fact, they can cause even more damage. Think palm oil or soy production for example, biofuels as well.

And restricting people from traveling is just a ludicrous idea. Give up your freedoms for the sake of... what exactly?

Interesting thread, I’m picking up some good tips here. I have enjoyed reading zero waste home which has more good advice, I love to use the library and freegle. I no longer buy sanitary products as I have some thinx underwear which you wash after use, and have been really good.

Plant-based alternatives are not exactly good for the environment
I agree - I think going vegan is not a great idea for the planet because corporate interests will always favour intensive agriculture the way we are currently set up. Local, high welfare, mostly plant is what I think we should go for.

Give up your freedoms for the sake of... what exactly?
The generations that come after us? The biodiversity of the planet? Or perhaps, who gives a fuck about our children's children - we'll be dead so it won't affect us!

The generations that come after us? The biodiversity of the planet? Or perhaps, who gives a fuck about our children's children - we'll be dead so it won't affect us!
Emotional blackmail at finest

I don't make "sacrifices". I don't have a big carbon footprint. We rarely fly, we don't drive a lot. We are not conspicuous consumers.

@FishCanFly most soy production is to produce feed for animals. Plant based is better for the environment than local, grass fed etc.

Emotional blackmail at finest

This thread assumes you believe we are affecting the planet. If you don't, it's for another thread. If you do, then you wouldn't be saying stuff like this.

@ Most measures will always hit the poor first. If you really want to stop people eating meat, you have to make it prohibitively expensive, if you want to stop people flying, again, you have to make it more expensive than the alternatives. People, in general, will not choose not to do things that are inconvenient to their lifestyle.

it is grossly unfair to hit the poor first it was not the poor that got us into this mess so why should they bear the brunt of sorting it out

even if steak was £100 a kilogram and flights were £10,000 the rich can still do them if they wanted to. it just removes choice from those who already have little choice and little to spend on treats
if you are poor ie a food budget of about £40-60 a week the only treats you can afford are sausages bacon haribo a bottle of cola all of which are not healthy we know but healthy treats like strawberries, avocado, a magazine or a book or going to the cinema ten pin bowling are not affordable penalising the very poorest just makes bad lives worse while not really impacting the wealthy

much fairer would be a token system everyone gets so many leisure airmiles, you can sell them if you don't want to use them, or everyone can buy X amount of meat ( like in WWII you didn't get a bigger ration because you were richer) so whether you buy wagu beef or sausages is up to you
so if you want to go to costa de la sol once every three years or save and go to Singapore every 5 years well it is your choice but it is not more important for a rich actress to go to LA than it is for Joe bloggs to get a family holiday in Spain
how about an actress like Emma Thompson instead of being hypocritical say I am not flying again I will stay at homein UK, I will not fly to film in Hungary but go on a coach or train with rest of crew ( or wherever) because no film is worth the damage to the planet, I will only speak at rallies in future by video conferencing unless local to me. I will not go to the Oscars in Hollywood and will catch a regular train to Cannes Film festival then maybe we could really believe she cares but while she swans around the world in a plane with a gigantic carbon footprint she is part of the problem the hypocritical green elite not part of the solution
I do not chose Emma Thompson because she is any worse than others members of the group but because she did fly from USA to UK to speak at a rally and then fly back the technology is there for her to have spoken without travelling, her carbon footprint for just one event was higher than the average council flat dweller who enjoys a bacon roll, the occasional costa coffee and drinks regular cows milk in his tea