To ask what sacrifices you make for the environment

[HarryElephante]

So, do you make any? And I mean actual sacrifices. Not just putting recycling outside your front door or re-using old shopping bags.

And for the sake of this question, I will assume you agree we are harming the planet. If you don't agree that is for another thread!

I make annoyingly few sacrifices but am going to start.

I don't really think I make any sacrifices and I could do more. I could never fly anywhere again, I could get rid of my car (live in London), I could wash my clothes at 30 degrees (but can't bring myself to), I could never have a light on until it gets dark, I could boil precisely one cup of water each time I want tea, I could shower twice a week and wash at the sink otherwise, I could buy all my food the least wrapped way possible. I feel guilty about how little I do tbh.

I have found reducing food packaging one of the easiest things to do. It does, however, mean I shop in street markets and organic shops, not in mainstream supermarkets.

The “sacrifice” is the time and research needed to set up new shopping and eating habits. Once those are underway it becomes routine to shop in street markets and with a shopping trolley/strung bags. It actually saves a lot of hassle having less packaging to dispose of!

@kiki I read the article you quoted and the one from farmers weekly
they both have some good points
The principle one is that the Common argicultural policy does not benefit wildlife at all
I am not a farmer I'm a HCP but live in the highlands and have lived on a west coast island, I know a crofter who planted seeds for lots of traditional flowers that grown on the machair ( a unique habitat in western Scotland where the seashore meets meadow) in the same fields as his cows together with clover, some expert spotted an orchid ( this type of orchid being quite common on the machair though not universely common) and set up a whole set of meeting with SNH and proclaimed field as a site of special scientific interest, so crofter could no longer graze his cows there, he could no longer get subsidies as not grazing cows no one was allowed on field so everyone loses a deliberate attempt to increase diversity gets punished, now several years later the field is overgrown with nettles and thistles as no grazing no manure no nothing I know a single incidence is not data
the type of hill farming Monbiot is talking about came about because rich landowners like the Duke of Sutherland (and I'm sure his welsh and Cumbrian counterparts) cleared the people of the land by burning their cottages to ensure no return and some forced immigration to America allegedly for their own good as they were too poor like they cared about the poverty.
So instead of a sustainable number of sheep grazing the flocks were quadrupled in size at least, together with red deer which over populate the highlands as no predators. Red deer rapidly strip any bark off new trees so any attempts of recreating the caledonian forest are useless; so instead of land being managed to sustain a small village it is maintained to feed the habits of the hunting shooting fishing brigade. The fishing brigade already being up in arms about a few reintroduced beavers in the argyll forest which may prevent a few salmon being caught by those who can afford to pay several thousands for a week's game fishing this is about sport not food.
We expect poor people in Indian to put up with the odd death from a tiger removing bread winner from a family or an elephant trampling the whole years crops so they face starvation in the name of preserving species and tigers are so important; but it is too awful beyond words to contemplate reintroducing wolves etc to the Highlands as the loss of one sheep (instead of a deer) would be so catastrophic that even the compensation would be insufficient ( there is ample compensation for alpine farmers that loss sheep to wolves or bears already) this is quite frankly nonsense
I agree with you in a great deal KIKI but I do think there is still room on our planet for some livestock for both meat and dairy it just needs proper joined up thinking not the sort the penalises farmers for wide hedgerows or some flag irises or a few beautiful flowers. When decisions are taken by accountants and ivory tower experts without any consideration for what really happens at ground level it goes wrong, of course local producers have a vested interest but there is also a huge vested interest in those lobbying CAP policies and draconian enforcement of rules when actually the breaking of the rule is more beneficial to wildlife as Monbiot gave several examples

I do my bit like many others here

We recycle everything we can. Not just to the regular council bins collection, but also clothes and shoes
We also shop at greengrocers and use the paper bags as sandwich bags in the week.
We cook from scratch every night using in season produce with minimal packing (why are avocados on a plastic tray covered in a plastic dome M&S?). We use eco friendly cleaning products.
But the best thing of all is that we have two allotments. These give all the veg we need over the summer and more for the winter, strung onions, carrots, purple sprouting, garlic and potatoes, beans which we freeze, spinach, broad beans, garlic, peas. We have had to think up a million and one courgette recipes but its good fun. We have fresh herbs. Tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, radish, beetroot, spinach, onions and spring onions. We have lots of fruit bushes too, raspberry, blackcurrant, gooseberry.
We also do salad leaves, tomatoes, spring onions radish and fennel.

It's a lot of work. DH is retired and I work two days a week still, but we love it. Taking home freshly dug potatoes and having them on your plate minutes later. They taste nothing like supermarket tatties. Nothing we grow does.
We pay £8.00 a year for an allotment where we live and there is always much more experienced allotment peopleto give you tips and advice, always welcome.
Even if you don't have an allotment a small garden could give you some of what you would like to grow.
We don't eat beef and lamb, we try to have two meatess meals a week and we eat a lot of free range chicken and fish.
Small things I know.
We very rarely fly anywhere. Trains mostly, and at home we cycle into town.
It's a drip in the ocean but I feel better doing this stuff.

I'll be honest, nothing I really do for the environment as such, but certainly things I do or don't do in order to save money. Like having the heating off even during last weekend's cold snap, or rarely flying everywhere, or trying (and OK rather failing lately) to keep my car mileage down.

I definitely dont do enough, but it's a work in progress..I dont have kids (not through choice but still!) Fly v rarely, never long haul, refillable shampoo, conditioner, body wash, washing up liquid and toilet cleaner, dont use any wipes, mooncup, compost bin, buy veg loose from green grocer mostly, am pescatarian. I do drive..lots of short journeys but have chronic health problems, need to buy less shit generally, love charity shops but still buy too much new especially clothes (this is where a real sacrifice is needed for me!) Trying to avoid single use plastics but find it hard with eg. yogurt, milk etc.

Difficult to use the word sacrifice as I don't see it that way but I'm actively buying less "stuff" especially packaged and/or plastic and making more of an effort to require second hand.

Dh and ds have become veggie, I'm not strictly but have stopped buying meat (will still have it when out). I don't think we've given up flying completely but are exploring alternatives for future holidays and we will fly rarely in the future.

We're replacing our petrol with an electric car but would not call it a sacrifice, we think it'll be really cool.

Most importantly we're trying to educating our sons about being kind to the environment and why it's a bad thing to buy too much "stuff".

Also, again not a sacrifice as long term it has saved us money but we have solar panels on our roof which connect to hot water supply so the vast majority of our hot water from
April to October comes from solar 😎

I really like the idea of a zero packaging shop!

@Hearhere yeah but would you want dirty hands and sneezes on your food? We get enough of the lurgies from school and nursery without that.

I totally take your points @Sombrero, but there must be a way?

I walk or cycle to work (one way in winter and bus home, both ways in summer). Not sure it's a sacrifice as I enjoy it.

I also rarely mow my lawns (or do any gardening at all despite having a garden that is probably larger than average, and I've seen frogs, slow worms and hedgehogs so its a wild life garden.), buy most of my clothes from charity shops and have only been abroad once (terrified of flying, so again, not really a sacrifice).

Small things, but it all helps.

Things that feel like there's some effort involved (as opposed to things I do/don't do for other reasons, or have been doing for so long I don't think about them any more):

• stopped buying a food I like in plastic tubs and getting the marginally less nice, but okay and also cheaper version in tins
• usually putting in the effort to look for a clothing item second hand rather than getting new which would be quicker. If people were made to list in more detail on eBay this would be easier, but they aren't.

-saving water (e.g. from waiting for shower to get warm before hair washing) to pour into toilet cistern when flushed. It is automatic as a routine now but obviously it does take a minute extra and if I'm in a hurry I won't pour the water in then.

In theory I would like to use bar soap but I've never in my life found one that doesn't dry my skin out, and there are only a couple of shower gels I know that are okay.

There are many ways in which I have a very low impact already so I don't worry much about the things which are too difficult like that. Even if some of them happen to be fashionable things to cut down on, often used by people who have bigger impacts in terms of transport, family size etc. There are things which can make people look like they are cutting down a lot in terms of household products and food, but they may often still be buying new clothes, driving a car, taking flights (I have taken one set of return flights in the last 20 years).

Though saying that about the garden, I do want to clear part of it and grow vegetables...

I also rarely use any cleaning products because I don't like the smell of them. Have to use them occasionally but really my use is at a minimum.

Also do the whole turning the heating down, despite really liking being toasty warm. That one is a sacrifice.

I’m embarrassed at how few changes I have made.

I will try harder. Starting with cutting down on meat and driving. I’ve bought reusable breathable bags for fruit and veg, my local butcher and anywhere else for that matter wrap in plastic so not sure that’s any better than the supermarket stuff? I already have kids, not willing to making a change there.

Reusable coffee cups, short showers instead of baths, soap instead of shower gel. We do fly but not often. Not really sure I want to definitively say we’ll give this up.

tbh a lot of our 'sacrefices' turned out to be time and money saving.

I've made various changes but I'm not sure I could describe them as sacrifices.
We no longer use plastic straws.
I've ditched fabric conditioner.
My cleaning products mostly consist of white vinegar and soda crystals.
Collecting items that can't be recycled in the bin and sending them off to a company thst will recycle them.
I bought most of DS & DD Christmas presents second hand (& will try and do again this year).
Planting bee-friendly flowers/seeds in the garden.

I would love to buy more food products that don't come in plastic packaging but that is proving difficult. We don't have any independent shops near us so I have to use the supermarket (which deems it necessary to put everything in plastic!).

My good environmental choices are just luck/nothing to do with the environment.
I only shop in charity/vintage shops or on eBay/Facebook (except for food, knickers and cleaning products). Reason: Saves money and suits my personal taste/fashion style.
I don't eat red meat. Reason: too many calories/too much fat.
I avoid flying wherever train is an option. Reason: I'm terrified of flying.

So I don't make any sacrifices. It would be a sacrifice for me to have to buy a new dress, eat a burger and fly within Europe!

I sometimes feel bad about my shopping choices having a bad impact on the economy though. If everybody bought second hand the country would be in a big mess. I think the same is true of many environmentally friendly decisions. So it seems we are stuck with making a choice between helping the environment or the economy - not being able to do both.

There's a few sacrifices that I don't think are ever worth it. Flying for example. I am fortunate enough to have travelled a lot (despite being terrified of the flights which was the big downside) and I think it's one of the most enriching life experiences you can have. I would far rather live a shorter life with plenty of travel then a long one eked out by never being able to go anywhere.

I won't use bar soap either. Someone told me once that around 50% of toilet germs end up on the soap. That's probably not even true but it's grossed me out ever since and I won't pick up a bar. Especially oldish, thin, browning ones. Also not going there with reusable sanitary products.

Plus, I've never really used wet wipes. I think I've bought 4 packs over 2 children, the oldest of whom is 7.

We shouldn't have to make the choice between the economy and the environment
we should REdesign the economy so the helping the economy also helps the environment

I would say that at least 90% of our waste as a family originates from the supermarket and because of that I've noticed how a large amount of packaging is not suitable for recycling. Hopefully we are all recycling as much as we can (I know that's only a small part of the wider issue) however we would all recycle a lot more if ALL packaging could be recycled or re-used, and I think the supermarkets and product manufacturers need to up their game where that's concerned.

Absolutely Hearhere. We should but we haven't yet - so at the moment it is still a choice.

Thought of some other things I do that are accidentally good for the environment:
I only use the eco cycle on the washing machine. Reason: it's quicker and I'm usually in a rush.
I don't have a dishwasher. Reason: waste of money when I can do it myself.

And a couple of things I'm shocking at and need to improve on:
I forget to take bags to the supermarket about 75% of the time (generally beacuase I don't purposely go to the supermarket, I go on my way back from somewhere on impulse).
I almost never use my food recycling bin (especially in summer) because I find it so disgusting.

I am starting to think that this is some sinister plot to get ordinary people to accept that their lives will be shittier in the near future and to embrace it - "good for the environment" that you:

• don't go on holidays

• Don't indulge yourself in niceties like imported foodstuffs
• Don't have a pet dog or cat
• cut down or pay more for subsistence items

It's not like the ruling classes will cut down on their business class travel or own stables, but that's none of your worries