To think these men are really just taking the piss out of women?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

or is it more sinister than that. Is this just a hatred of women/of females.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/05/08/powerlifter-mary-gregory-world-records-disqualified-trans/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Buffer&utm_campaign=PN

Bit of an aside, but isn't it nice to see a sport's authorities deal with this properly? From the Pink News article:

"However, in a statement released on May 1, 100% Raw Powerlifting Federation president Paul Bossi said the group has stripped Gregory of her wins because he believes she is male.

“It was revealed that this female lifter was actually a male in the process of becoming a Transgender female,” Bossi said in the statement.

“Our rules, and the basis of separating genders for competition, are based on physiological classification rather than identification.

“On the basis of all information presented to the Board of Directors for this particular case, the conclusion made, is that the correct physiological classification is male.”

“Since the lifter’s gender classification for the purpose of our rules is not consistent with female, no female records will be broken by these lifts,” Bossi concluded.

Read that again - “Our rules, and the basis of separating genders for competition, are based on physiological classification rather than identification. Why do so many other sports have such difficulty with this? I mean, really; why?

Correct. The system exists. It appears to have a loophole or two. Otherwise how would someone with male sexual characteristics, organs, genetics and physique be able to compete against someone with female sexual characteristics, organs, genetics and physique?

Even if "the strongest females could lift more than most males", that doesn't mean the strongest female in that sport could lift more than most males within that sport. This isn't a competition against most men, it's meant to a competition of women in a particular sport. The only people being compared here are those within that sport, no one else's strength or ability matters. If the strongest women don't want to be powerlifters, their strength is irrelevant to a powerlifting competition.

It's well known in most sports (including almost all sports with weight classes like the powerlifting already in discussion as well as wrestling and boxing), those comparisons are usually divided by sex. It's well known that mixed-sex competition and training in those sports not only leads to fewer female winners, but also puts girls and women at greater risk of injury for a wide range of reason even in a non-contact sport like powerlifting - training to compete with men is very different. Some women choose to take those risks, I did when I was a teenager, but if a competition is promoting itself as single sex, it needs to keep to that.

I've no idea what they're thinking, but I find it very difficult to believe that they don't know any of that if they're involved enough to compete. Like this is all basic lifting 101 information. Height and weight can play a part, but so does muscle to weight ratio, bone structure, and so many other things in our sex phenotypes affects how we lift, how much we can lift safely, and the rest. My teenage newbie lifter knows all this and I just can't give the benefit of the doubt that those in these types of sports don't know these well enough that claiming otherwise, claiming it's just like the lifting differences between people of the same sex, aren't fully aware of their bullshit.

Both, I think; piss taking because they hate us.

Thank god for chromosomes otherwise women’s sports would be finished.

Otherwise how would someone with male sexual characteristics, organs, genetics and physique be able to compete against someone with female sexual characteristics, organs, genetics and physique?

It’s that pesky ‘legal fiction’ thingy (it was considered a more palatable option than same sex marriage at the time, it it’s redundant, and in some respects, harmful, now).

Sex is determined by chromosomes, gametes and genitals. These medals and records were not rescinded because the athlete is ‘trans’ but because the athlete is male.

Sport is segregated by sex because male and female bodies are different, personal identities are a completely different kettle(bell) of fish.
Where physical sex differences are irrelevant, such as in equestrian sports, men and women compete against each other.

How sports should be segregated is a separate discussion. Maybe it should all be on weight classes, or maybe on chromosome. Or maybe hormone levels.

No it isn't a separate discussion, there is no need for a discussion sports are segregated on the basis of SEX, that's it and that's how it should stay.

Trans athletes are well aware of their sex and the advantages or disadvantages of that sex it is not unreasonable to infer a motive of piss taking, hatred and contempt.

Both, I think; piss taking because they hate us.

This.

I'm constantly reminded of how irrelevant women are. Our spaces, sports and even the word 'woman' can be taken over by men, just because they feel like it.

I'm sick of the 'shouldnt all sports be categorised by height/weight/hair colour'. Never an issue until men wanted to win women's sports, now misogynists are trying to frame these convoluted categories as something that would actually benefit women. When what would benefit women is for them to leave our sports alone.

'There must be a way men can win men's sports and women's sports if they really want to,' ponder weird mind-set men who definitely are NOT misogynists. 'After all: Fatima Whitbread.'

Kudos to the powerlifting authorities for not get woke-bullied into submission.

Pink news is horrifyingly misogynistic. It’s verging on parody.

Trans athletes are well aware of their sex and the advantages or disadvantages of that sex it is not unreasonable to infer a motive of piss taking, hatred and contempt.

Of course the strongest athletes will know that they are the strongest. It still doesn't follow that in their minds they think the way you describe, as opposed to just seeing it as the way the cookie crumbles that nature made them that way.

Off the top of my head, I do not know if there are any known generalisations that could be made on the basis of race. But even if there were, it would still not follow that the members of the advantaged race must hate and be contemptuous of those in the same competition. As opposed to once again, just seeing it as the way nature's cookie has crumbled.

Some people will bend over backwards to bash trans people won't they. It is not enough for them to just believe wrong things about themselves, or to make arguments for why sport should be split by chromosome not gender. They have to be demonised even in terms of their own thought processes.

Its just outrageous and needs to be stopped. It will ruin women’s sports, feels quite on purpose.

How the fuck can sport be segregated by gender when gender is indefinable?

We don't play sport with our gender identity, we play sport with our sexed body.

Also, aren't there about 70 genders now?

It still doesn't follow that in their minds they think the way you describe, as opposed to just seeing it as the way the cookie crumbles that nature made them that way.

Any athlete involved enough to compete would know that's bullshit. They might spout it, but beginners, people in their first months of sports that use similar training to powerlifting, know that sex affects how we lift, how much we can lift safely, and the additional risks to women in training for and competing in mixed-sex competitions. Men know it too - pretty much any serious resource on lifting or training for power discusses these things.

Mixed sex competition is a choice some make, and I'm not against open competitions, but single-sex competitions are safer, much like weight class for powerlifiting and similar sports, and places are in the right to protect and enable those. Any athlete in these sports who is trying to say that's wrong or that the differences between a male and female athlete are the same as between two people of the same sex is talking shite, likely for horrible reasons. There is no benign reason that I can think of that would allow that line of reasoning from someone who is competing in these kinds of sports. Random people outside the sports, maybe with how poor education on these sorts of things are, but not anyone involved enough to compete.

If you've been told it once you must've been told a couple of dozen times, JAPAB. Im weary of repeating this. Feminists aren't anti trans. We're pro the rights of women and girls. And in this case we're for women's sports.

Apart from a few sports (equestrian events, for instance) men should not be competing against women, regardless of gender identity. I'm not prepared to compromise on this. And, yes, Mary Gregory is a cheat, as is the unspeakable misogynist and (women's) record breaking cyclist, Rachel McKinnon.

Some people will bend over backwards to bash trans people won't they. It is not enough for them to just believe wrong things about themselves, or to make arguments for why sport should be split by chromosome not gender. They have to be demonised even in terms of their own thought processes.

Sport is split by sex, not gender. They can believe what they like about themselves but their sex does not change, therefore the want to compete in the sport category not applicable to their sex raises questions as to their motives.

It’s amazing how Jabap always managers to get the attention of the ladies here - al vying for his attention as tho his voice is always the most sought after in the room - he obviously loves dangling the ladies along and you all let him ffs!

It's the sense of entitlement that boggles my mind

YANVU to post this here and not in FWR which is clearly the place where anyone who wants to engage with this endless subject will be.

Gah! Can't type. YABVU to post here and not in FWR.

I don't understand how those who argue for the inclusion of trans in women's sports don't follow it to the logical conclusion and argue for the complete abolishment of segregation in sport full stop. Well actually I understand completely, but I quite enjoy listening to the explanations.

You are not being unreasonable it is as you say piss taking of the highest order. Unfortunately a lot of men seem to be laughing their heads off at how ridiculous it is regardless of the fact that women are getting shafted left right and centre.

You don't own MN forestafantastica and the OP can post what she likes where she likes, if you don't like the subject or wish to discuss it find something else that interests you.