To think it’s not just the owner, sometimes it’s the breed?

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I’m a dog lover, I love all dogs especially big working breeds.

In my life I’ve had German shepherds, Rottweilers, Labrador’s and spaniels. I was always of the opinion that it’s the owner and not the breed.

But, why are there so many deaths related to pit bulls? I get the argument that pit bull type dogs tend to be owned by wrong uns so more likely to be trained to be aggressive. Ok. I also get the argument that a pit bull attack is more likely to be fatal than a spaniel attack. Fine.

But look at the statistics. Over 200 deaths related to pit bulls over a 13 year stretch in the USA alone. Most of them seemingly unprovoked. The next breed to be accountable for the most human deaths was the Rottweiler with around 40 deaths. The majority of these deaths were related to dogs which had been trained as protection dogs or were provoked.

Doberman’s had less than 15 deaths which all of them relating to unique circumstances (previously abused, trained protection dogs, one was a dog who killed its owner during an epileptic fit).

So why the huge difference with pit bulls? A lot of the pit bull deaths were caused by family dogs with no previous history of aggression.

I’m starting to change my mind. Maybe sometimes it IS the breed?

I have 2 black lab boxer crosses - when they run towards you with their ears back they look like bull breeds. I imagine some reported bites are inaccurate in terms of breed identity.. The issue with bull breeds as far as I know, is the powerful jaw compared to most other breeds means they can cause a lot of damage and hold on tight!

One of my (beautiful) boxer x labs - looks more like a staffy when she's laid out!

Furrydogmum lovely dog

Boxers are counted among "bull breeds".

Ours is a staff x boxer so her colouring, shoulders and head are very staffy like, but she has chops and a taller, leaner body like a boxer.

She's very elderly now, and doesn't get so many raised eyebrows when we're out.

Incidentally french bulldogs also count as a bull breed.

@Furrydogmum she's stunning

Thanks 😁 the other one is even "prettier" but haven't got an pics of her rocking her inner staffy on my phone! They both put the wind up people when they gallop through the woods 😯

@Furrydogmum I can imagine, I'd love a bigger dog but I can't give a bigger dog the attention that they need right now so it'll have to wait till I've more time for them.

I work with dogs in a professional setting (dealing with behavioural issues mainly but also veterinary qualified) day in day out and love most of them. I’ve met the good and bad in almost every breed however I can hand on heart say I would never own a bull breed.

The damage that I’ve seen done to human and more frequently other dogs can be horrendous. I can not say whether bull breeds are more likely to attack humans, probably not to be fair but the vast majority of them are dog aggressive and I’ve seen too many people try to piece back together dogs attacked by them. Bull breeds are also the only breed in 10 years that I’ve seen kill other dogs in the family, I can’t remember another instance where it was a different type although I admit it’s not impossible.

I’ve also had a fair few dealings where I’ve been called out by police and seen a full on frenzied attack which is terrifying. Only last month a police officer pinning an out of control Staffordshire bull terrier while we tried to contain it said it was the most terrifying moment of his career. It wasn’t even a big dog but the power it had was unbelievable.

I also don't think they are right for the average joe to keep. Like most large breeds they need lots of exercise, training and stimulation and sitting on someone’s couch all day does them no good at all.

I’m not for one moment saying they are all bad or aggressive and I’m sure there are thousands of lovely ones but when it does go wrong it goes wrong big style and that’s the issue for me.

I am not a bull breed hater, far from it but sadly the only way to protect them now is to make sure only responsible owners can own them. I would welcome some sort of licence to prove I was capable of training and owning such a dog and would happily get one myself (I own GSD so I’m not a small fluffy dog keeper either!)

It's not any one factor, breed, breeding and breeders all plays apart, just as owner and genetics, they just tick more of the boxes than most breeds. If they do go wrong the consequences will be fatal alot more of the time than with other breeds.

I’ve certainly known a disproportionate number of feisty, snappy JRTs and as a terrier breed used for ratting etc. surely that is a breed thing?

I've had 2 lakeland terriers. They have an incredibly high prey drive and will easily take a rabbit even as a puppy, despite being small. Both of mine would chase anything that runs, but have never shown the slightest tendency to snap at people unless you hurt them. Both were well socialised and (by terrier standards) fairly well trained, although neither of them would ever have made an obedience champion.

However, mine both came from show lines. I've also met lakelands from working lines that have been well-socialised and well-trained and they have had great temperaments.

I've met plenty of working lakelands and they have much sharper temperaments, a couple have been postively snappy and renowned for biting. If you want a terrier to do terrier-work, they've got to be a bit fierce and fearless.

So I think it's not so much the breed or the instinct but how they are socialised and trained. People who own working terriers wouldn't want to risk them losing that sharp edge and not being so good at pest control, so they don't train and socialise as a pet owner would and their dogs can be absolute little bastards.

Like the pair I saw in terreir boxes in the back of a pick-up in a pub car park, who hurled themselves against the front of the box, barking, snarling and showing their teeth every time someone walked within ten yards of the truck. Even I found them a bit scarey!

We have a service dog here and yes she's a rottweiler. As with any dog, training is key. Ours goes into hospitals schools and nursing homes and is a delight. However she is still a dog and therefore needs her space to be respected. Education for any breed is vital to ownership. Any dog can do damage. Sadly the ones you often see highlighted are those of a bull breed.

@Jamsangwich I've had a few SBTs over the years. All been very friendly, kind dogs. People still cross the street when I walk them, but at least I'm less at risk of getting mugged 😂

I’m no dog expert whatsoever so my view is not based on research of any kind. I have only had labradors. They are playful bonkers boisterous and big dangerous (as in may knock you off your feet with excitement) but I am constantly reassured by their soft mouths. I know of a staffy who bit someone’s ear off and when I saw the size and imagined the power in those jaws I was terrified

@floribunda18
I wouldn't want any dog that has the locking jaw thing.

Well its a good thing that locking jaw doesnt actually exist and is a myth

It's mainly breed and a good owner can mitigate this.
Most dog owners are not good at training and handling their dogs but most dogs don't bite people.
Certain difficult breeds seem to be owned by clueless people though - shar peis, American bull dogs, great Danes being 3 good examples. Whereas gsds can be awkward but tend to have good owners. Staffies are usually good with people (though not with other dogs). All kinds of people own Staffies so it's lucky that they are fairly foolproof.

It is 110% both the owner and the breed. Pitbull’s can be loving caring pets, that given they have been bread to be aggressive powerful fighting animals. The breeds you have listed have been bread to serve, even the Rottweilers SERVE as guard dogs. I raise Siberian Huskies, my aunt runs the Iditarod with Huskies, these dogs are bread to run not serve. They happen to very charismatic goofballs given the chance, but they LOVE to run and are great at it. I always laugh when I see someone walking a Husky and being pulled along, all the while yelling “Stop! Heel, NO, Wait” to animal that could care less. Yes I know some Huskies have been trained to heal off leash, it can be done (that is much longer post). So in reply to the Pitbull question. Pitbulls are loaded weapons, and anyone who says different is not respecting 100’s of years of selective breading, and ignoring it won’t change it. Now they may never go off and bite someone, not every pit will bite. But if for any reason they ever choose to they can be deadly. Good pit owners recognize this and treat them like a loaded weapon and do not allow them into situations where harm could occur. This is why it’s both the owner and the breed. My favorite husky will never be off lead because love me or not she would cover 50 miles before she even looked back to see if I was coming along for the run.

I don't think it's a good idea to have a dog which you couldn't fight off if something went wrong and it attacked you. Dogs can become ill and snappy or even get dementia, so a very nice animal can behave unpredictably.
The ones I've come across who have been a problem have been a bit of a mix.
A husky with an irresponsible owner, the husky murdered a cat.
Jack Russel which despite being owned by a vet, nearly took someone's eye out.
A staffie who injured a larger dog which was trying to intimidate it.
A whippet (one of a pair, the other was very nice and they were treated completely equally), who was a real bully and used to trample, snarl at and try and rip the ears off smaller dogs. That whippet was quite a nasty piece of work and the most unpleasant of any dogs I've personally known well.

What @WiddlinDiddlin said

My grandad (years and years ago) bred pitbulls. He was adamant about a few things
Breeding on any side that was bad would = bad. So don't ever breed from anything with a slightly iffy temperament
Environment and how they grew up
The owner
Training and exercise. He thought a lot of dogs were under walked/worked

I looked after an Akita once that really unnerved me, and I've grown up with dogs. It guarded a door and was snarling, boisterous, would grab at the kids arms etc and mum thought it was funny
In the 2 weeks I looked after her, I walked, and walked, and walked some more, after she tried to go for me the first day I did about 2.5hrs with her. She came home and slept and slept. Got up the next day and did it again. Was mega strict on behaviour and she was a star. Mum came home, kid shoves hand in dogs mouth