To be losing patience with estate agents

[GoBrookeYourself]

House was on the market with estate agent 1 for 5 months-Ish and then we moved to estate agents 2. Under the contract it states anyone introduced by estate agent 1 who buys our property ensures the fee goes to estate agent 1 if sold within 6 months of leaving. All well and good. Estate agent 2 has had our house on the market for 5 weeks-Ish and we accepted an offer late last week. Our viewings slowed substantially so very excited to have an offer as we have found the house we want to buy (which is selling through estate agent 1).

Now estate agent 2 contact us introducing who will be looking after the sale of the property. Estate agent 1 then contact DH to say it’s someone they’ve introduced and the fee is payable to them. DH asks them to sort it with EA2. EA1 then call me to tell me they have tried to contact EA2 and EA2 have said the buyers are different to the ones EA1 put on their list of people who viewed the house. EA1 are disagreeing and saying it’s the same people and we need to sort it out or we’ll have to pay 2 lots of fees(?)! I explain that we don’t get any information bar surnames about the people viewing the house so aren’t really in a position to say who the buyers are. EA1 ask me to call EA2 to tell them I want to pay EA1 the fee. I call EA2 to explain who says she’ll call EA1. I get an email which I see just after I’ve called EA2 from EA1, sent before I managed to call EA2, to say she’s contacted the buyer to tell them she’ll be dealing with the sale. EA2 then contact me to say they’ve contacted the seller too to say they’re dealing with it.

The whole thing is ridiculous and unprofessional- we’ve suggested splitting the fee which EA2 agreed to and EA1 refused to and we have received no fewer than 8 calls and 2 emails today arguing that the fee goes to them. Starting to get really annoyed by the situation and worried they’re going to scare the buyers off with their unprofessionalism.

Sorry for the long post, really needed a rant. Has anyone else been in this situation? Is there a chance we could get charged both lots of EA fees (which are exactly the same fee)?

I would say that the onus here is on EA1 to demonstrate beyond dispute that your buyers are on their list or connected to someone who is. If they can do that then they get the fee, irrespective of which EA the buyer is willing to do business with. If the buyer still insists on dealing with EA2 (because EA1 is demonstrably an arsehole, for instance!) then you can still handle the sale through EA2 but if EA2 also wants paying because they're doing all the work, then you'll have to pay two fees if you want to hang on to this buyer.

EA1 sound awful, but if they're selling you your new home you'll have to find a way to deal with them through gritted teeth.

Either that, or pull out of both your transactions, let the dust settle and start again with new agents. (Not entirely joking.)

EA1 are behaving oddly. Why don't they just negotiate a split fee with EA2 and EA2 does all the sales chasing (which is EA speak for the work they do after a sale has been agreed)? then they won't have to deal with buyers who don't want to talk to them. If EA1 actually did introduce your property to these buyers via the property finder then they do actually have a claim to some payment. The trouble with asking your solicitor to handle everything is that it costs so much money. In your position op I would email both agents the same email asking them to negotiate a split fee between them and ask them both not to contact you re. their dispute again.

To answer a few questions; yes I’ve spoken to my solicitor about it, they’ve never had a situation gone this far before so are looking into what to do.

EA1 have said the purchaser have confirmed they originally saw them and EA2 aren’t disputing this any more, they are now saying that a) they did the negotiation so they want some of the fee and are happy to split and b) the purchaser doesn’t want to speak to EA1 anyway. EA1 have said that the purchaser spoke to EA2 who told them not to give any info to EA1 as EA2 we’re dealing with it so they aren’t telling them anything.

EA2 want to split the fee, EA1 categorically won’t do this and have outright refused.

I can’t really afford to start from scratch; we risk losing our dream home as the seller of the house we’re buying had 2 offers and picked ours so I’m guessing she’d then go to the other offer and we really really REALLY like this house.

EA2 have asked us to send an email saying we want them to represent us which, when speaking to the solicitor, is something we won’t do as the solicitor said it then gives them right to chase us for the fee and EA1 will still also get a fee due to the contract we signed. Instead we’ve sent an email cc-ing everyone in (both EAs and the solicitor) saying we are legally bound to EA1 and they will need to be the ones to proceed. EA1 have responded, EA2 haven’t so I have no idea what’s happening anymore. Really don’t want to lose this sale!

bibbitybobbityyhat it would make life so much easier if EA1 would accept a split fee as both fees are the same anyway but they point blank refused and directed the question to their manager who sent a (rude) email also point blank refusing.

Oh and we have asked them (numerous times) to please not get us involved (this was the bit our solicitor found the most confusing, why we even knew any of this was happening), but they wouldn’t stop. Until this morning, when DH sent out that email and it’s been an eerie radio silence from EA2 so far.. I’m worried they’re going to say something to dissuade the buyers from buying our house- if they’ve already told them not to deal with EA1 to the point where they won’t give them any information (yet made it sound like the buyers asked themselves to not deal with EA1), what else will they say..?

the judge asked for their viewing diary and list of offers, they could only provide a photocopy with blacked out names

Aw bless - like so many EAs they weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the box were they? With mine, they fell back on a fictional "Mr Smith" and claimed to be really hurt when asked why they'd couldn't have been a bit more original

GoBrooke there's rather too much playground-like "they TOLD me to say it" from them both for my taste, and now they're just feeding off your responses - so why not cut contact and simply direct them to the solicitor? Unless it would cost you a lot of course, in which case just authorise a payment to the one you choose and leave them to fight it out

If EA1 are as stupid as the PP's bunch they won't stand a chance anyway - especially if, as suspected, they've invented the "finder"

This happened to us the other way around.

Houshunting many years ago, I viewed a property with EA1. Didn't really like it and told DH we didn't need to visit it together.

Many months later we were still looking, using the divide and rule approach (DH saw some properties on the weekend and I saw others in the week - we then compared notes to decide which ones warranted a joint visit).

DH brought me to his second viewing of the same property I'd been shown months before but had discounted. Seems DH was keener on it than I had been (market had moved since my first viewing and so had our priorities).

A joint visit later we had decided to put in an offer -- I asked EA2 to alert EA1 that we were now indeed interested in a property they'd shown me months before, and EA2 said he would do so but then seemingly forgot.

Both EAs ended up sharing the fees. There was no way either the seller (or us buyers) would have agreed to pay double.

Puzzledandpissedoff the issue is I don’t actually now think EA1 have invented the finder as they have said the buyer has confirmed they went through EA1 first but now want to use EA2, but EA1 are saying the only reason they’re saying that is because EA2 told them to. It’s getting ridiculous, it’s stupid and childish.

To top it off, my DH called EA1 today and said can’t you just split the fee and save all this hassle? EA1 have said outright no again. DH has said what if that means we lose the sale? And they’ve just said it doesn’t matter they’d rather lose the sale than split the fee. So they’re a) cutting off their nose to spite their face and b) essentially telling us they don’t give a flying monkeys about us as customers and we’re just a fee to them. Which logically I knew but it’s awful to have it said when it’s something as personal as house buying/selling. I’m gutted.

shockthemonkey EA1 have now point blank refused to split the fee on a few occasions, even if it means the buyers backing out. Which they confirmed today.

Although EA1 shouldn't have harrassed you, the law is on their side if they can prove that they introduced the buyer. You signed a contract to that effect.

If the buyer does not want to proceed via EA1 then they will have to withdraw their offer. EA2 has no right to any commission if they did not introduce the buyer.

The best thing all round would be as suggested, to split the fee, but EA1 are within their rights to refuse this as it was not a joint agent contract.

EA2 took on the property knowing that they were the second agent tried and that the clause would apply to agent 1.

This is something that really needs considering when you change agents, The EA doesn't get a penny unless your property sells, which means that they have paid out for wages, advertising etc, with no income to show for it unless the sale goes ahead, which is why they have the 6 month clause in there.

EA1 have now point blank refused to split the fee on a few occasions, even if it means the buyers backing out.

This makes no sense, because if you lose your sale, you'll no longer be in a position to proceed on your purchase, which means (if I understood it correctly) that EA1 will also lose their fee on that transaction... unless, as you say, the other purchasers interested in that property are waiting in the wings.

In your shoes, I would be worried that the other purchasers have been leaning on EA1, trying to find out what generous thing they can do to get their offer accepted after all. If your buyer now doesn't deny that they originally heard of your property through EA1, then I think you should state clearly that EA1 will be getting the fee and if EA2 doesn't want to work for free they have to hand the file over to EA2 and back off.

Sorry, I realise this is the complete opposite of what I said before. I thought EA was trying it on, but the competing offer on the house you're buying, and the apparent admission from your buyer that what EA1 says is true, changes things, I think.

Sorry, EA2 has to hand over the file to EA1, that should say.

It’s getting ridiculous

It is indeed, but the key words in everything you've told us is "they said"

Experience suggests that EAs will (and do) say anything that suits them at any given time, so when they're fighting like rats in a sack there's little point in trying to work out what the last message meant

As I said, just give the whole thing to the solicitors, who really are in a position to work out who owes what and to whom

staplerfan I knew when we moved about the 6 months thing just didn’t think it would cause as many issues as it has. Although to be fair I think it’s less that that’s the issue and more the behaviour of the EAs.

streetdreams I didn’t understand why they’d say no to the splitting either even if the seller backs out, because surely half a fee is better than no. They said their central region manager would never allow it even if they agreed to it. Although you have a point with the other buyer for the other house waiting in the wings for this to fall through. It really is our dream home though so I really hope it doesn’t happen- we’ve already accepted 5k below what we wanted for our house for speed of sale and paying 5k over asking for the other house (which incidentally has been on the market for 3 years and now we want it we have competition ha!).

puzzledandpissedoff we have now given it to the solicitor to deal with but the reason we were initially was the number of calls we were getting from the EAs about it despite us saying we couldn’t do anything. Hopefully now it’s with the solicitors something might get sorted. Only time will tell now.

EAs are parasites...

arnoldthecat I didn’t realise before but I’m quickly realising you’re so right! They don’t seem to have any conscience whatsoever.

Well done for handing the whole thing over - I realise it was the ridiculous hassling which led to this, but good luck to them if they try lying to your lawyer

BTW if the place you want was on the market for 3+ years I wouldn't take too much notice of the alleged "competition" either. Unless you know this for a fact it's likely to also be fictitious, intended to avoid undue delay

And yes, I realise I sound like a lousy rotten cynic when it comes to EAs ... it's called experience

They don’t seem to have any conscience whatsoever

Got it in one - as did Arnold with the parasite remark - and how predictable that the "regional manager" gambit came crawling out of the woodwork right on cue

There's a word for this kind of thing, and they're full of it

Puzzledandpissedoff I did wonder about this other offer. It’s been on the market for 3 years and they accepted our offer a while ago and said they were happy to wait for us to sell. It took a few months until we got the offer we just accepted and on the day we called the EA to tell them we wanted to proceed they said she’d now had a higher offer she was considering. I panicked (i’d made the rookie mistake of telling them I loved the house) and upped our offer which the EA called back within 10 minutes or so saying the lady selling had accepted. In hindsight it seemed quite convenient for the timing of another offer, but we were too scared to risk losing the house.

I’ve never had any experience of EAs before; lived with mum and dad until I got married when I moved in with my DH then a few years later we moved into a new build so no EAs involved as we rented DHs house out. Can’t say I’m enjoying the EA experience so far lol. I hope your story with them turned out well!

Do you have the contact details for your sellers? Maybe they could tell the EA2 to back off....

In hindsight it seemed quite convenient for the timing of another offer, but we were too scared to risk losing the house

Exactly - and they'd have known that perfectly well. Strictly speaking they're not supposed to lie about offers, but then they're not supposed to do lots of things and it doesn't stop them doing them

You'll probably enjoy this ... www.statista.com/chart/16147/the-uks-most-and-least-trusted-professions/

EA1- sound like a large corporate and are being incredibly heavy handed. Hiding behind the area manager is such b/s. You're buying through them so by saying they'd rather pull the sale down they run the risk of losing TWO fees. Really? - I seriously doubt that given the one you're buying was on market for three years!

EA2 are being the more reasonable as they have said they are willing to split the fee. Under the new Anti Money Laundering regs they need to have proof of i.d. of you AND your buyers so establishing if these were the same people that viewed with EA1 shouldn't be a problem.

It's a legal requirement for any agent to be a member of a property redress scheme. I would go back to EA1 and tell them you are raising a complaint through their scheme (as they are the ones harassing you most and threatening you with aborting the transaction) and DO IT.

EA1 are bullying and trying to scare you. The onus of proof of a fee owed is on them and the ombudsman will look at several factors including time between the viewing with EA1 and EA2. Did they follow up with and give feedback from the buyers, and how they have conducted themselves with you. I'd also get the ombudsman to look at the whether there really was another interested party in the house you are buying when you offered.

Are EA1's other clients - the people you are buying from - aware of this shit-show? Do they know their agent is threatening to abort their sale? If not maybe consider putting a note through their door explaining the issue and that if they force you to pay two fees you'll have to drop your offer by the same amount or pull out.

The people we’re buying the house from are only up the road and are quite elderly and moving in with their daughter- I sort of suspect they’re just doing whatever EA1 tell them to as she isn’t looking to buy another property. We’ve only ever spoken to her directly to see the house.

So the people who are buying our house originally saw it a few months ago; We were the ones that showed them round and they said they were really interested but EA1 struggled to get a hold of them after they viewed it so left it at that. When they viewed again through EA2 they said they were interested but again were hard to get hold of, but EA2 persevered (and I mean REALLY persevered)- after 3 weeks of pretty much constant calling they got through to them and the buyers apologised saying they’d been really busy with work. We worried that they were going to be ‘flaky’ since it had been so hard to get hold of them but they’ve pretty much in constant contact with EA2 since then and given them everything (ID, solicitors details, AIP) whereas EA1 aren’t getting anything off them as the buyers say they now don’t want to deal with them.

I agree that EA1 are being really rude and bullying and you’re right, it’s a large corporation; it’s part of countrywide estate agents. We haven’t spoken to the people who are buying our house but presume they’re aware of the shit show because they’re getting calls from both EAs now. We did find out their full name yesterday from EA2 so although she said she couldn’t give us a phone number, my DH has found her on LinkedIn and added her and is hoping to explain the situation to ensure she doesn’t get scared off.

If I’m honest I think the fee should be split because although EA1 found the buyers, they’ve not done any work towards the sale, EA2 did all the negotiations etc but then I appreciate it from EA1s point of view that that was their choice to knowing it was EA1s buyer. However, the fact that the buyer doesn’t WANT to deal with EA1 makes me thing EA1 should just split it but they won’t. I’d love to make the complaint but a part of me is worried that if I do, and the other buyer for the house we want is real, EA1 seem awful enough that they’ll persuade the person we’re buying the house from to go with them instead.

If EA1 didn’t happen to be the people selling the house we want to buy this would be much easier!

ohdeardaddyibrokeitagain do you mind me asking what a property redress scheme is? Thank you for all your info by the way.

We had this and paid both a fee. They were mean and competitive with each other like yours are being.