Cyclists and the Highway Code

[Jemima232]

Huh. Just Huh.

And Wow, too.

So now we have to be careful not to knock cyclists over, when driving past them.

Of course, they don't have to be careful not to knock anyone over when they go through red traffic lights, do they?

As if they need more legislation in their favour. It absolutely enrages me.

I would love to know where the people who say that they rarely see cyclists going through red lights live.

Not in London, anyway.

I lived in London for many, many years and saw red-light-disregard by cyclists very frequently.

I would never cycle in London and was horrified when DS found a bike which someone had disgarded somewhere. I did plead with him not to use it, as cycling in London is unsafe.

cycling in London is unsafe

What do you mean by unsafe?

Is driving in London safe?

Is walking in London safe?

@Jaxhog

Even if bikes weren’t out of scope, they would be under 0 emissions so wouldn’t pay any VED anyway (same as electric and hydrogen fuel cars).

"Drivers don't usually try to overtake you if you are indicating right, "

It happens to me on about a weekly basis due to the road layout where I live.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

"yet a lot of cyclists think it's ok to undertake you if you are indicating left and no, it's not "lawful filtering"."

Why is it not "lawful filtering"?

It's for exactly this reason that I take pains never to be alongside a car when passing a junction opening.

You're in slow or stationary traffic. Folk complain about cyclists being in the middle of the lane so we can't go there; moving to the centre line is patently dangerous because as soon as traffic sets off again cars will be undertaking cyclists; so cyclists pass on the left and you don't like that either. What do you expect them to do, levitate?

Left-hookers are all too common and can be fatal. It could be that a cyclist is daft enough to pass on the left whilst someone is indicating to turn sure, but most times this sort of collision occurs when either the driver doesn't indicate, or overtakes the cyclist and then immediately drops anchor and turns. I've seen it happen countless times.

Even if for the sake of argument you're right and it's all the cyclist's fault, will being right make you feel better after you've just killed someone?

You've got mirrors and a neck, use them before turning. It takes a moment to shoulder-check before turning and could save someone's life one day. Contrary to popular belief cyclists don't "appear out of nowhere," you're just not looking for them.

Another name to add to the 'total dicks on MN' spreadsheet.

I've asked DH about your London comments OP as he studied and cycled in London for 4 years.

His feeling is that the bad cycling is the same as the bad driving that happens in London. People's reaction to the roads being busy and congested.

As to the rest: YABVVU

cycling in London is unsafe

yeah, thanks to drivers who seem to think cyclists deserve everything they get because a few of them act like twats. Are we supposed to unleash our collective ire on all drivers of white German whips?

Interesting video by the Guardian on this very topic.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2019/may/09/do-cyclists-think-theyre-above-the-law-and-does-it-even-matter-video

And re: the old 'road tax' nonsense - even setting aside that roads are paid for from general taxation, not vehicle emission tax, I can't think of a single other instance where people are so quick to equate amount of tax paid with rights. Should higher rate tax payers have access to a better NHS? Should those receiving benefits lose access to basic amenities because they are paying less tax? No, of course not. We all pay into a communal pot and we accept that we may be 'paying' for other people.

@theentertainer I'm all for encouraging low/no emission vehicles, but someone has to pay for the roads!

It's all very well to say that some should pay more than others, but most tax is based on ability to pay. If we all rode bikes and dtrove emission free cars, the world would certainly be a nicer place, but someone would still have to pay for the roads.

I'd also like to see cyclists have insurance.

We all pay for the roads already, Jaxhog...? And not through the emissions charges.

I also ride a bike and would never ride up the inside of a car (and definitely not a bus or lorry) indicating left. I have seen it on a regular basis in London when I've been walking around and it scares me. Why would you do that? Just wait a few seconds, let the lorry pull away and follow on. It's a few seconds of your life (and hopefully not the last few, if you wait).

We do, through various taxes.

VED isn’t ring fenced for road investment. It goes into the pot. At the moment the current system is used as an incentive to buy environmentally friendly vehicles. I think the government will use tolls to build new road infrastructure. Take the new east/south east crossing in London. TFL will probably (from local consultation info) putting tolls on the existing crossings in the area to help fund it. Or expansion of the congestion and low emissions zones.

At the end of the day depen

It's all very well to say that some should pay more than others, but most tax is based on ability to pay. If we all rode bikes and dtrove emission free cars, the world would certainly be a nicer place, but someone would still have to pay for the roads.

That would be the same way they're funded right now- through general taxation. We are all paying, even those of us who don't have a car!

Emissions tax does not specifically fund roads.

A lot of cyclists do have insurance. To establish compulsory insurance and enforce would be an expense that a government wouldn’t want to bear, when they’re already having to make a lot of cuts.

Meant to sat fiscal policy - whose in power, who their voters are and determining who they can/can’t piss on.

"I do think cyclists can be selfish and oblivious to pedestrians.

Last Saturday my friend and I were walking a popular trail that is for cyclists and pedestrians. It is split in to 2, half for cyclists and half for walkers, clearly marked on the tarmac. Numerous times we heard bells and shouts from cyclists coming up behind us telling us to move out of the way even though we were walking in the pedestrian part.
After passing us they would shout at us for not moving so they could pass us in tandem.
When cyclists were approaching us from both behind and in front we often felt we had no choice but to squeeze ourselves against the hedgerow so they could pass.

I do think cyclists should be more considerate to pedestrians, especially as they want drivers"

It goes both ways. Pedestrians also need to be more considerate. You may keep to your side but I've lost count of the number of times pedestrians walk four abreast so they're taking over both sides, wander over onto the cycle side or just decide to walk on the cycle side despite the pedestrian side being empty. They then look shocked to discover a cyclist behind them waiting patiently to pass. I don't think some people take any notice of the clear signs on the path or large symbols on the ground as they are usually too busy staring at their phones. I also had a pedestrian nearly step out in front of me to cross the road. She turned and stepped off the pavement at the same time. I was just about able to stop. Yes cyclists need to be more considerate but so do pedestrians. I face this kind of thing every single day. Maybe if everyone followed the highway code as they're supposed to and were a little less impatient we wouldn't have most of the problems on the road. Sorry to sound wound up but I face these issues on almost a daily basis. I drive and cycle and try to be considerate to all road users but there are people who give cyclists a bad name and drivers that do the same.

Numerous times we heard bells and shouts from cyclists coming up behind us telling us to move out of the way even though we were walking in the pedestrian part.
After passing us they would shout at us for not moving so they could pass us in tandem.

I smell bullshit. This pp over-egged it.

I smell bullshit. This pp over-egged it.

Why?

Because it doesn't show cyclists in a good light?

Because that doesn't happen. Yes, you do get people on their bikes being dickheads on shared use paths that aren't marked with a pedestrian side. I have been the pedestrian in such encounters.

I have never seen it on cycle-paths that are neatly divided in half. There is no way it would happen "numerous times" in one day.

I know, because I actually do this thing called "walking", along cyclepaths of both types on a daily basis.

Why? Because like I already said, this was over-egged.

Numerous times

• ok, so this apparently happened multiple times on the same walk.

we heard bells and shouts from cyclists coming up behind us

• these multiple (but unconnected) groups of cyclists all rang their bells and/or shouted out

(Not withstanding that many bikes don't have bells on and lots of riders "shout" by saying "hello!", or "good morning" etc, which most people find to be friendly)

telling us to move out of the way even though we were walking in the pedestrian part.

• and again, all these disparate groups all told pp (you? Not sure) they should move off the pedestrian half of the shared pathway?

After passing us they would shout at us for not moving so they could pass us in tandem.

• And then as the final denouement, there would be yet another (strangely coincidental) shouting at you after the fact, because they couldn't pass by in a pair?

Yeah, I do call bullshit.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety-laws-new-kim-briggs-death-warning-against-witch-hunt-a7960291.html%3famp

Far more cyclists are killed by cars, than pedestrians by cyclists. Your anger is misdirected.

I assume you have never cycled on the road. If you had you would realised that you feel extremely vulnerable from both other vehicles but also pedestrians who walk out in front of funkiest without looking constantly. To the extent that I am actually more surprised about pedestrians than cars! Watching for evidence they are suddenly going to step out in the road.

In fact the only time I nearly ran anyone over on my bike is when someone was playing hide and seek behind a parked car and popped up and ran out in front of me when cycling down a hill. She went flying and I was really shocked but luckily neither of us was hurt.

Remember that most cyclists are also pedestrians and drivers too. And drivers are pedestrians and sometimes cyclists too. People aren't defined by their mode of transport. And some people whether they are cyclists, pedestrians or motorists do stupid things. I see motorists doing stupid things on an almost daily basis.

This cyclist vs motorist debate is really not helpful when trying to improve road safety.

Lol. 98%! Ha ha. Did you conduct a survey where you monitored traffic lights across London to come up with that figure!

And cyclists are allowed to ride in tandem. Check your Highway Code. It makes them more visible on the road.

"I would love to know where the people who say that they rarely see cyclists going through red lights live.

Not in London, anyway.

I lived in London for many, many years and saw red-light-disregard by cyclists very frequently.

I would never cycle in London and was horrified when DS found a bike which someone had disgarded somewhere. I did plead with him not to use it, as cycling in London is unsafe."

@Jemima232

So now cycling is unsafe? I thought your problem was that we shouldn't be worried about cyclists safety as 98% of them are rampaging around the country mowing down pedestrians.

You really haven't thought this through have you!

In my experience it's pedestrians who have no regard for the cycle lane on a shared path. Not the other way around.

Yep absolutely nothing worse than driving on a 60mph country lane and meeting a cyclist. you can’t over take for the entire stretch due to too many turns, so end up doing 20 mph for 5 miles with no attempt made by the cyclist to let you past. Oh and also having cars doing 40mph + nearly ploughing into the back of your car due to the traffic the cyclist is forming.

Drivers should be looking ahead and keeping a safe distance from other cars..... you remember those safe stopping distances? Anything could stop a car from a cyclist to another broken down vehicle. Don't blame cyclists for Shiite drivers. Like cyclists there are good and bad drivers

*I smell bullshit. This pp over-egged it.

Why?

Because it doesn't show cyclists in a good light?*

No because your trying to show yourself in a better light..... which is not working.