To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

GOOGLE
HOW MUCH ALCOHOL IS SAFE DURING PREGNANCY.

See how many sites come back, saying it is "safe"

I attached information from the March of Dimes. This is not, funny, it is your children.

If you really research it you will see.

4

all has been said however the numbers quoted, to me seem minimal.

alcohol, smoking etc are all good targets.

does anyone study the effets of crap food, additives, no exercise, pollution, chemicals and cleaning products in the home, a poor mental outlook or stress?

in my mind these are all just as harmful but never mentioned.

life is a game of chance and fortune, unfortunately we seem to want to interfer and place blame at every opportunity.

Leati, could you please post links to the articles, rather than the text? Or at the very least smaller quotes? It makes the thread slow to load (we are all capable of clicking on links and reading!)

Your tone is very patronising. We have heard of fetal alcohol syndrome. The vast majority of women on here who drank alcohol in pregnancy made an educated choice. Personally, I consulted my doctor who told me that a low consumption of alcohol (ie a glass of wine with a meal occasionally) would not harm the baby. I chose not to drink in the first trimester, but yes, I did have a glass or two of red wine afterwards.

I know in the States they label bottles of alcoholic beverages with warnings - maybe that is a good idea. But I think EDUCATE rather than LEGISLATE is the key here. You should not allow choice to be taken away from the pregnant woman.

From "Fetal Alcohol Syndrome - the Origins of a Moral Panic":

"If we are to reduce the incidence of FAS, we must first accurately comprehend the problem at hand and abandon the rhetoric of moral panic.There is no epidemic of FAS births. Nor is 'social' or 'moderate' drinking amongst the almost 4 million pregnant women who give birth annually in the USA a risk factor for FAS." (my emphasis)

I live in Cali. Not that that has anything to do with drinking during your pregnancy.

Why do you post these things? I am bored of this now, but every post of yours I have read has been
"Oh you do this in England, it's awful you shouldn't, you should do it the way we do it in America it's so much better."

Come on, you started this, respond to Eleusis and I.

Sorry cross-posted and you've just told her where you live.

But really, you completely ignored me and I think the point about caffeine perfectly illustrates the difference between the attitude here and where you are.

I have also heard that doctors and midwifes in the UK are not educated to the dangers of drinking alcohol during pregnancy. There are studies that show even small amounts of alcohol affect an unborn fetus.

I will try to put links.

I wouldn't drink caffiene during my pregnancy either.

I just like to know where the nutters live.
(but of course everyone already knows they are in California) It's good to know one hasn't gone astray.

This is a joke, by the way. I love California.

I don't think you need to lecture us leati. no one on here is questioning that drinking can be harmful. I seriously doubt anyone would go on a binge while they knew they were pg. We are not stupid. If some of us have an occasional glass of wine then that's up to us. My midwife actually suggested that it might do me some good now and then as if one small glass helps me to wind down after a stressful day it can ease the bad effects stress can have on the fetus.

If I am not answering you, I am not ignoring you it is just so much is coming at once

That's because your posts are very extremist so they are getting a big response.

I am well aware that midwifes in the UK advise women to have a glass of wine. I learned it in my research, along with the fact that they are not well versed in the harm of drinking during your pregnancies.

so we're ignorant, our midwives and doctors are ignorant, the British people are ignorant. Well thank God we have America to show us the way.

sorry, i thought this was going to be a good old debate..but alas leati you are just preaching. you are taking nobody elses opinion into consideration. posting endless quotes that you have googled does not constitute a debate imo. so im off to carry on living in the uk with our uneducated doctors and midvives thanks all the same. i find your comments quite offensive tbh.

Okay Leati, what is your research and what are your qualifications? Are you a doctor? Or do you mean your research on google?

YABU

and you're not being honest. You believe that it's not ok for mothers to drink any alcohol in pregnancy. However you're trying to present your opinion as established fact.

The women on here have reflected your research back which says that heavy drinking affects pregnancy. Everyone on here agrees that heavy drinking during pregnancy can cause FAS.

And that is why the recommendation is one to two units a week. (not 7)

If soon-to-be-mothers are having difficulty with alcohol dependancy I urge them to seek counselling in the UK - a country that will not try and take away their babies because of an illness/addiction.

I am an alcohol counsellor - I know firsthand what FAS does - and I happily go along with one or two units a weeks is safe.

Just read it.

If your not afraid of what it says, then what is the harm.

alcoholism.about.com/cs/preg/a/aa070997.htm

Stepping in and out of this post very quickly just to add that i'm american and do not know of any american friends who were told to cut out all caffeine when pregnant. People are usually told by their doctors to drink it in moderation limit to a cup or two a day because there are quite a few people out there who would otherwise have 5+ coffees or sodas a day, and that's not considered particularly healthy when pregnant (or anytime, probably).

And there is no way that pregnant women in America are expected stop eating chocolate. Reading that made me laugh.

Sorry JJ131 - wasn't having a go at Americans as a whole, just this particular one.

helllooooooo!
Leati what are you trying to achieve here?
If you wish to change people minds about something, anything, you need to engage with them. You need to have them listen and respect what you say because it comes from an honest and reasonable place
You are not doing that.
Flicking through this thread is the vitual equvilent of just being shouted at ( and actually shouted at by the most boring teacher in the whole school).
Seriously. You should complate what you are trying to achieve. If you really want to change peoples minds you often can do that. But being strident is making people thing LESS of your views because you are coming across as a little unintelligent because you cannot discuss or engage or contemplate anyone elses opinion. I am sure you are honest and sincere but you are not at all getting your views heard

Frankly Leati this link is irresonspible:
alcoholism.about.com/cs/preg/a/aa070997.htm

At the bottom it states you should stop drinking immediately, which is extremely dangerous to an alcoholic, and I should imagine even more dangerous to a pregnant alcoholic.

Okay

Let me try to explain my perspective. I know that everyone there thinks it okay and that so long as you follow the guidelines it fine. There is some reseach that suggest that you are right. But there is also a great deal of research that shows that even a small amount of alcohol is bad for a fetus. There is also research that shows the UK paeditricians and midwifes are not as educated on the affects of alcohol as they are in many other parts of the world.

I am not trying to down your medical people, but when will I read an article that says the are leading the way on this research.

What I found when pregnant was that if I was even NEAR alcohol I would want to vomit.

So my lovely red wine was out.

Then when I didn't feel sick, I got heartburn if I had any (ditto pastry grrrr).

So again, my lovely red wine was out.

So I think your body will naturally steer you away from stuff tbh.

(And I did all that without cut and paste, a miracle)