To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

In France you see heavily pregnant women smoking. It really riles me. But it is their business not mine and there is nothing I can do about it. Like drinking, the information is all there - on every packet of cigs and on all the alcohol publicity here. You are preaching to the converted.

If someone is going to smoke and drink they are going to do so, moderately or not. Getting upset about it on mumsnet will change nothing - especially as the forum is full of us converts who do not drink in excess or smoke during pg and those who do will not listen to a cyber stranger banging on about it when they do not listen to their doctor/midwife/public health info.

So because one orginization, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, says its okay it must be right. The fact that the best research hospitals and top peditrician in the world say it is not doesn't matter?

I quoted this from thier website

Home > Information for patients > Information for patients > Alcohol and Pregnancy

Alcohol and Pregnancy - information for you

Published November 2006 by the RCOG.

We welcome feedback from members of the public or from health professionals on our patient information. Please email any comments to: Lucy Arnold.

This information is also available as a pdf:

Alcohol and Pregnancy - pdf file (301 kb)
You may be interested to read the RCOG statement Alcohol consumption and the outcomes of pregnancy.

----------------

Contents
Key points
About this information
How does alcohol affect pregnancy?
How is alcohol measured?
How much is safe to drink during pregnancy?
What is binge drinking?
What happens if I drink too much before I?m pregnant?
What happens if I?m drinking too much during pregnancy?
What is fetal alcohol syndrome?
Support for you
Is there anything else I should know?
Sources and acknowledgements
Useful additional information
Key Points
Fetal alcohol syndrome is the name given to a combination of features diagnosed in the baby after birth. It is caused by a woman drinking heavily throughout pregnancy.
Alcohol can have other effects on the baby which are known as fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD).
When a woman drinks during pregnancy, the alcohol passes from her blood stream through the placenta and into the baby?s blood stream.
The safest approach in pregnancy is to choose not to drink at all.
Small amounts of alcohol during pregnancy (not more than one to two units, not more than once or twice a week) have not been shown to be harmful.
Alcohol is measured in units. One unit of alcohol is the equivalent of a half a pint of lager or beer, a glass of wine or a single shot of a spirit (gin, vodka, rum). 1 Alcohol and pregnancy: information for you Published November 2006 by the RCOG Due to be reviewed in 2008
When an individual drinks five or more units of alcohol on one occasion, this is known as binge drinking.
Regular binge drinking, around conception and in early pregnancy, is particularly harmful to a woman and her baby.
Heavy drinking is often related to unprotected sexual intercourse, which may result in an unplanned pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection.
It is important that you share information with your healthcare professional(s) about your drinking. Depending on your situation, your healthcare professional will then be able to offer you appropriate information and support.
Information about treatment and support is available from your:
practice nurse or GP at your general practice
midwife or obstetrician at your hospital.
About this information
This information is for you if you are pregnant or you are planning on becoming pregnant.

This information outlines the effects of drinking alcohol during pregnancy and provides advice about what is probably a safe amount to drink before and during your pregnancy. It also tells you about:

a safe limit when you are not pregnant
a safe limit when you are pregnant (both before and after the pregnancy is confirmed)
available information and support if you are drinking above a safe limit
the effect of drinking above a safe limit on the baby?s development in the womb
the effect of drinking above a safe limit while breastfeeding.
This information will help you to make informed choices about your own drinking. It aims to help you and your healthcare team make the best decisions about your care.

This information does not tell you in detail about:

fetal alcohol ayndrome
fetal alcohol spectrum disorder.
Some of the recommendations here may not apply to you. This could be because of some other illness you have, your general health, your wishes, or some or all of these things. If you think the treatment or care you get does not match what we describe here, then you should discuss this with your doctor, midwife, or another member of your healthcare team.

return to top

How does alcohol affect pregnancy?
When a woman drinks alcohol during pregnancy, the alcohol passes from her blood stream through the placenta and into the baby?s blood stream. When a woman is drinking regularly during this time, the alcohol can disrupt the baby?s normal development in the womb.

Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can affect:

the way the baby develops in the womb
the baby?s health at birth
the baby?s susceptibility to illness in infancy, childhood, adolescence and adult life
the child?s ability to learn (learning difficulties).
The effects of drinking alcohol are most harmful for the baby when a woman drinks just before and during pregnancy. When a woman cuts down or stops drinking at any point during pregnancy, it can make a difference to the baby. However, in some instances, once the damage has been done, this cannot be reversed.

If you are a heavy drinker and then stop drinking immediately, you could experience side effects such as withdrawal, delirium and other difficulties. So if you want to stop drinking, you should discuss this first with your healthcare professional, who will be able to help you to manage any side effects.

How is alcohol measured?
In the UK, alcohol is measured in units. One unit of alcohol is defined as 10 ml (millilitres) by volume (ABV) or 7.9 grams by weight of pure ethanol.

All alcohol sold in the UK above 1.2% ABV should indicate how strong it is in percentages (%). For example, a bottle of wine is about 12% strength. A bottle of whisky is about 40% strength. The higher the percentage, the more alcohol a drink has in it. A glass of whisky, therefore, is stronger than a glass of wine.

The table below is a rough guide to the units of alcohol in standard measures of different drinks. This is an approximation and may vary depending on the brand of your drink and the size of the measure.Drinks poured at home tend to be larger measures than those provided in pubs and restaurants.

For women who are not pregnant, the UK Government?s maximum recommended number of units is 14 units per week.

Light drinking is defined as under 2 units a day.
Heavy drinking is defined as over 6 units a day.
Beer, Cider & Alcopops

Strength
ABV Half
Pint
(units) Pint
(units) Bottle/
Can (units)
Bottle
1 Litre
(units)
330ml
500ml
Ordinary strength beer, lager or cider e.g. Draught beer, Heineken, Woodpecker
3-4% 1 2 1.5 1.9 -
'Export' strength beer, lager or cider e.g.
Stella, Budweiser, Kronenbourg, Strongbow 5% 1.25 2.5 2 2.5 -
Extra strong beer, lager or cider e.g.
Special Brew, Diamond White, Tennants Extra
8-9% 2.5 4.5 3 4.5 9
Alcopops, e.g.
Bacardi Breezer, Smirnoff Ice, Reef, Archers, Hooch 5% - - 1.7 - -

Wines & Spirits

Strength
ABV Small glass/
pub measure (units) Wine glass*
(units) Bottle
750 ml (units)
Table Wine 10-12% - 1.5 9
Fortified wine
(sherry, martini, port) 15-20% 0.8 2-3 14
Spirits
(whisky, vodka, gin) 40% 1 - 30

• some measures of wine are more than this.

Source: Reproduced from the Royal College of Psychiatrists leaflet: Alcohol and Depression, Help is as Hand.

return to top

How much is safe to drink during pregnancy?
Information about this is often unclear and conflicting. This can be confusing. There are only a few studies in this area and not everyone agrees with what these studies show.

Based on the best evidence to date, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists recommends that the only way to be absolutely certain that your baby is not harmed by alcohol is not to drink at all during pregnancy or while you are trying for a baby.

I quoted this from thier website

Home > Information for patients > Information for patients > Alcohol and Pregnancy

Alcohol and Pregnancy - information for you

Published November 2006 by the RCOG.

We welcome feedback from members of the public or from health professionals on our patient information. Please email any comments to: Lucy Arnold.

This information is also available as a pdf:

Alcohol and Pregnancy - pdf file (301 kb)
You may be interested to read the RCOG statement Alcohol consumption and the outcomes of pregnancy.

----------------

Contents
Key points
About this information
How does alcohol affect pregnancy?
How is alcohol measured?
How much is safe to drink during pregnancy?
What is binge drinking?
What happens if I drink too much before I?m pregnant?
What happens if I?m drinking too much during pregnancy?
What is fetal alcohol syndrome?
Support for you
Is there anything else I should know?
Sources and acknowledgements
Useful additional information
Key Points
Fetal alcohol syndrome is the name given to a combination of features diagnosed in the baby after birth. It is caused by a woman drinking heavily throughout pregnancy.
Alcohol can have other effects on the baby which are known as fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD).
When a woman drinks during pregnancy, the alcohol passes from her blood stream through the placenta and into the baby?s blood stream.
The safest approach in pregnancy is to choose not to drink at all.
Small amounts of alcohol during pregnancy (not more than one to two units, not more than once or twice a week) have not been shown to be harmful.
Alcohol is measured in units. One unit of alcohol is the equivalent of a half a pint of lager or beer, a glass of wine or a single shot of a spirit (gin, vodka, rum). 1 Alcohol and pregnancy: information for you Published November 2006 by the RCOG Due to be reviewed in 2008
When an individual drinks five or more units of alcohol on one occasion, this is known as binge drinking.
Regular binge drinking, around conception and in early pregnancy, is particularly harmful to a woman and her baby.
Heavy drinking is often related to unprotected sexual intercourse, which may result in an unplanned pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection.
It is important that you share information with your healthcare professional(s) about your drinking. Depending on your situation, your healthcare professional will then be able to offer you appropriate information and support.
Information about treatment and support is available from your:
practice nurse or GP at your general practice
midwife or obstetrician at your hospital.
About this information
This information is for you if you are pregnant or you are planning on becoming pregnant.

This information outlines the effects of drinking alcohol during pregnancy and provides advice about what is probably a safe amount to drink before and during your pregnancy. It also tells you about:

a safe limit when you are not pregnant
a safe limit when you are pregnant (both before and after the pregnancy is confirmed)
available information and support if you are drinking above a safe limit
the effect of drinking above a safe limit on the baby?s development in the womb
the effect of drinking above a safe limit while breastfeeding.
This information will help you to make informed choices about your own drinking. It aims to help you and your healthcare team make the best decisions about your care.

This information does not tell you in detail about:

fetal alcohol ayndrome
fetal alcohol spectrum disorder.
Some of the recommendations here may not apply to you. This could be because of some other illness you have, your general health, your wishes, or some or all of these things. If you think the treatment or care you get does not match what we describe here, then you should discuss this with your doctor, midwife, or another member of your healthcare team.

return to top

How does alcohol affect pregnancy?
When a woman drinks alcohol during pregnancy, the alcohol passes from her blood stream through the placenta and into the baby?s blood stream. When a woman is drinking regularly during this time, the alcohol can disrupt the baby?s normal development in the womb.

Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can affect:

the way the baby develops in the womb
the baby?s health at birth
the baby?s susceptibility to illness in infancy, childhood, adolescence and adult life
the child?s ability to learn (learning difficulties).
The effects of drinking alcohol are most harmful for the baby when a woman drinks just before and during pregnancy. When a woman cuts down or stops drinking at any point during pregnancy, it can make a difference to the baby. However, in some instances, once the damage has been done, this cannot be reversed.

If you are a heavy drinker and then stop drinking immediately, you could experience side effects such as withdrawal, delirium and other difficulties. So if you want to stop drinking, you should discuss this first with your healthcare professional, who will be able to help you to manage any side effects.

How is alcohol measured?
In the UK, alcohol is measured in units. One unit of alcohol is defined as 10 ml (millilitres) by volume (ABV) or 7.9 grams by weight of pure ethanol.

All alcohol sold in the UK above 1.2% ABV should indicate how strong it is in percentages (%). For example, a bottle of wine is about 12% strength. A bottle of whisky is about 40% strength. The higher the percentage, the more alcohol a drink has in it. A glass of whisky, therefore, is stronger than a glass of wine.

The table below is a rough guide to the units of alcohol in standard measures of different drinks. This is an approximation and may vary depending on the brand of your drink and the size of the measure.Drinks poured at home tend to be larger measures than those provided in pubs and restaurants.

For women who are not pregnant, the UK Government?s maximum recommended number of units is 14 units per week.

Light drinking is defined as under 2 units a day.
Heavy drinking is defined as over 6 units a day.
Beer, Cider & Alcopops

Strength
ABV Half
Pint
(units) Pint
(units) Bottle/
Can (units)
Bottle
1 Litre
(units)
330ml
500ml
Ordinary strength beer, lager or cider e.g. Draught beer, Heineken, Woodpecker
3-4% 1 2 1.5 1.9 -
'Export' strength beer, lager or cider e.g.
Stella, Budweiser, Kronenbourg, Strongbow 5% 1.25 2.5 2 2.5 -
Extra strong beer, lager or cider e.g.
Special Brew, Diamond White, Tennants Extra
8-9% 2.5 4.5 3 4.5 9
Alcopops, e.g.
Bacardi Breezer, Smirnoff Ice, Reef, Archers, Hooch 5% - - 1.7 - -

Wines & Spirits

Strength
ABV Small glass/
pub measure (units) Wine glass*
(units) Bottle
750 ml (units)
Table Wine 10-12% - 1.5 9
Fortified wine
(sherry, martini, port) 15-20% 0.8 2-3 14
Spirits
(whisky, vodka, gin) 40% 1 - 30

• some measures of wine are more than this.

Source: Reproduced from the Royal College of Psychiatrists leaflet: Alcohol and Depression, Help is as Hand.

return to top

How much is safe to drink during pregnancy?
Information about this is often unclear and conflicting. This can be confusing. There are only a few studies in this area and not everyone agrees with what these studies show.

Based on the best evidence to date, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists recommends that the only way to be absolutely certain that your baby is not harmed by alcohol is not to drink at all during pregnancy or while you are trying for a baby.

I would be inclined to go along with the notion that a glass of wine with dinner once or twice a week is safe. Maybe drinking a glass of wine on an empty stomach could be hazardous but I refuse to believe that the former puts a baby at risk of FAS or cognitive damage.

VVV - I'm with you on that one ... but I have to say that there's already a longitudinal cohort for study available now... my generation of women - my mum (as were many women in the 70s and 80s) were advised to drink a bottle of stout - my mother was even advised as to brand (Mackesons) every day to keep up their iron levels. Surely, if alcohol at that level were dangerous, then a whole generation would have been born suffering from FAS ...

I want to highlite this part

Information about this is often unclear and conflicting. This can be confusing. There are only a few studies in this area and not everyone agrees with what these studies show.

Based on the best evidence to date, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists recommends that the only way to be absolutely certain that your baby is not harmed by alcohol is not to drink at all during pregnancy or while you are trying for a baby.

Leati, this is from the stuff you posted:

"Fetal alcohol syndrome is the name given to a combination of features diagnosed in the baby after birth. It is caused by a woman drinking heavily throughout pregnancy."

(emphasis mine)

Leati
I am sure you are well intentioned but you are sounding a little sanctemonious. As the mother of an SN child I am as passionate as anyone about protecting kids but you have to treat reasonable adults as reasonable adults and not as naughty school children.
I regard myself as reasonable and with two out of three of my pregnancies I had an OCCASIONAL glass of wine .
hmmmn guess which pregnancie resulted in SN child ?

Leati - and also from what you quoted:

Small amounts of alcohol during pregnancy (not more than one to two units, not more than once or twice a week) have not been shown to be harmful.

'Based on the best evidence to date, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists recommends that the only way to be absolutely certain that your baby is not harmed by alcohol is not to drink at all during pregnancy or while you are trying for a baby.'

But then the only way to be absolutely certain you won't be hit by a bus is to never leave the house

Oh dear, please don't post your comments in duplicate - it doesn't make people change their minds.

I'll ask again - how do they know for sure? How can they be certain that small amounts of alcohol directly cause cognitive problems? No one is denying that FAS is real and terrible, but when there are so many variables in a pregnancy and so many non-drinkers have SN or sick children how can these things be directly related to a couple of units of alcohol?

"Based on the best evidence to date, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists recommends that the only way to be absolutely certain that your baby is not harmed by alcohol is not to drink at all during pregnancy or while you are trying for a baby."

so no real proof that a couple of glasses of wine hurt then?

Funny you should say that ejt......

I agree with RCOG, the safest thing to do is to Just Not Drink.

hear hear alice!

Heavy is defined as 7 drink is seven days and causes the worst mental retardation. Studies show that drinking less, still has been shown to cause other cognitive problems.

I have one question.

Why would you risk it?

There is no proof either way, but they DO know that all alcohol crosses the placenta.

Because there is no hard evidence that I shouldn't. MY choice

Alice if you want to take that risk with your life that fine but why would you take that risk with you babys. Being a parent means making sacrafices. And if you can't sacrafice alcohol for nine months. What does that say?

None of those studies have proven that one or two units is harmful, so I don't feel I'm taking a risk. I also don't usually drink in the first trimester.

Leati, I do think you meant well when you posted this thread. But, surely you are aware that in the UK and in the US, your views are really very extreme.

Where do you live in the states?

Because I'm not utterly paranoid?

Please don't reduce this to personal insults, Leati, it doesn't help anybody.

I think you mean 10 months.