To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

Who would have thought? The dangers lurking in your very own bathroom! And one complete with live sockets if you're in the US.

"At the time of the incidents, most victims were being supervised by one or both parents"

So it would have made no difference if they'd been left alone to drown in the toilet bowl, would it?

How effing big are toilets in the USA? Are they bigger than here to accomodate supersize arses or something, like the burgers are bigger? How can a toddler drown in a toilet bowl? Has there ever been a recorded case of such an event in the UK? Does anyone know?

You will notice ladies, the similarity between my cut and paste and the vast volumes cut and pasted yesterday by the op. ie, that claims of risks are made, but no actual numbers to back it up. Just scaremongering.
... puts toilet lock and bathroom door alarm on shopping list for tomorrow.... will liven up the dead of night when ds1 gets up for a wee then!

I can't remember. I actually think the toilets are bigger here.

Luckily, I've got a memory like a sieve.

I once caught DD2 with cat food pellets in her mouth.

The danger that was in my own hall!

Thelind boggles, really, no matter have big the toilets. And how limited the lifesaving skills of the parents.

I'll bet it's because all those parents who were there when their toddler went in the toilet were drunk.

I imagine the kids must have gone in head first. My neice once fell in when she was a toddler. My sister in law came to rescue of screaming toddler. When she waled into the bathroom she saw a head and two legs and two arms flapping out of the toilet. I SOOOOO wish she had taken a picture.

Well yes, I guess- it's even harder to envisage toddlers drowning in toilets feet first

So if you are going to have a relaxing glass of wine in the bath, safest to do it in good old blighty then.

'A child who is drowning usually can't shout for help so it's important to be alert for signs of drowning'.

sorry to harp back to my fabulous cut and paste but this bit made me smile. Presumably the signs for drowning, for a supervising parent to be alert for, is wild thrashing of arms and legs whilst head appears to be stuck down toilet.

PEDANT ALERT

"More children drown in toilets, tubs, or a bucket with just a few inches of water."

I would just like to point out that is not a complete sentence. "More" is a comparative, more than what?

Perhaps the sentance should have read...

"More children drown in toilets, tubs, or a bucket with just a few inches of water than the Gobi Desert."

Noone seemed to notice when leati said she didn't have any caffeine when pg either...

Oh yes, I noticed that. It was at that point I rolled my eyes and decided not to get involved in her thread. But then I found the toilet drowning American website bit and couldn't keep quiet any longer.

and anyway - don't I recall (from a Bill Bryson Book ) that something like 50,000 americans every year are injured by their night clothes or bedding. Thats seriously enough to go the the emergency room. 50,000 people can't safely negotiate a pillow case EVERY YEAR

I am just laughing my tits off at not being able to negotiate a pillowcase.

LOLOLOLOLOL

maybe I'm being unfair. maybe Americans have particularly ferocious duvets?

Maybe it all the rough sex.

I have a feeling thats a whole other category with significantly more then 50,000 injuries...

Is she still asleep? Probably having nightmares about mass mental retardation.

By the way, can I just say how much I loathe that term.

Rough Draft
I am sure you ladies will amuse yourself for another day making fun of it. That is alright, though.

The United Kingdom and Drinking during Pregnancies

Mumsnet is a web page that gives mothers a forum to discuss life, children, and family. The women there often offer a fresh perspective to life and are blunt about their opinions on various issues. Social politeness that prevents American women from expressing themselves is forgone on this site. It was here that I first started to understand that there were vast differences in lifestyles between the United Kingdom (UK) and the United States (US).
I began to pick up on the fact that many of the women on the site used alcohol during their pregnancies and believed that it was healthy in moderation. I started the thread of all threads in hopes of discovering more. I will admit, I was hoping to spread the concept that alcohol during pregnancies was not acceptable. Never, have I seen such a frenzied attack on a person in my life. My character, my intelligence, my country, my children, and so much more was dissected, insulted, and considered not up to par. The women did not want to hear that drinking alcohol during pregnancies was unhealthy. The only information they were interested in was information that told them it was ?safe? to drink.
The ladies were referred to several web-sites that indicated that some early research indicates that alcohol even in small amounts could cause developmental and cognitive problems. Then the integrity of those web-sites was attacked. The March of Dimes was called ?a right wing anti-abortionists? group. A article in medical news today, was suspect because the doctor worked for an awareness group, ?Dr Raja Mukherjee spoke at the Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Aware UK Syndrome Conference, London, UK? and the about.com article was ?irresponsible? because they recommend pregnant women who are drinking to stop immediately. However, the women had a very reliable source they could depend on in Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist (RCOG). ?There is an increasing body of evidence suggesting harm to the fetus from alcohol consumption during pregnancy. While the safest approach may be to avoid any alcohol intake during pregnancy, it remains the case that there is no evidence of harm from low levels of alcohol consumption, defined as no more than one or two units of alcohol once or twice a week (Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist [RCOG], 2006).? However, it appears that RCOG stands alone in their approach that the consumption of mild alcohol consumption is acceptable during pregnancy.
The Center for Disease control and prevention recommends that women abstain from drinking alcohol during pregnancy. They state there is no safe amount or time to consumer alcohol during pregnancies(Center for Disease Control [CDC], May ). The United States Surgeon General advises women who are pregnant or plan to become pregnant to abstain for drinking alcohol, ?It is now clear that no amount of alcohol can be considered safe.(United States Surgeon General [USSG], 2005)? MayoClinic advises, ?Stop drinking alcohol altogether if you're planning to become pregnant, as soon as you know you're pregnant or if you even think you might be pregnant. Your baby's brain, heart and blood vessels begin to develop in the early weeks of pregnancy.(Mayo Clinic [MC], May )? The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist recommend that women do not drink, advising women that doctors do not know how much alcohol it takes to harm a fetus(American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist [ACOG], ).
There are clear differences between the UK and US policy on drinking during pregnancy. The more research done, the more indications there are that many affects of alcohol are not as visible. Children who struggle in school, or have learning disabilities can be the result of a drinking parent. How can we differentiate between nature and nurture? Ideally women would abstain from alcohol during pregnancy but that is just not realistic. In United Kingdom it appears to be socially acceptable to drink during pregnancy, despite the known risk and the fact that there is no medical benefit to drinking alcohol during pregnancy. Many women indicated midwives even advised them to have a unit of wine a few nights a week to help them relax. Most women on the mumsnet web-site stated that they drank very mildly to moderately, however, a few proudly declared they drank every night. While any suggestion that drinking mildly to moderately during pregnancy could be harmful to a fetus and that women should abstain during pregnancy was viciously attacked. No one appeared upset when mothers proudly announced that they drank more than the recommended amount by the ROCG.
I am left to ponder is this just another difference between the two countries or is it a serious problem. Are tens of thousand of doctors and organizations, unnecessarily, denying women the joy of a relaxing glass of wine? Or is ROCG lulling women into a false sense of security? There are a lot of unknowns but a few things are known. Alcohol that a woman consumes during pregnancy passes from her blood into the blood of the unborn fetus, and the fetus is still developing its liver and so it does not have the same ability to get rid of the alcohol. Heavy consumption of alcohol can lead to a wide variety of health issues including FAS.
One of the mumsnetters valiantly declared that she was not a walking fetus. She is a human being with many faucets to her and the ability to make decisions about what is best for her and her unborn. I found this statement powerful but still I wondered, if the UK put the same efforts into educating, encouraging, and supporting women not to drink during pregnancy, as they do for breastfeeding after birth, would these women feel the same. It would appear to me that while drinking during pregnancy is socially acceptable in the UK, bottle feeding your baby is not.