to think that it's appalling that society has come to this

[floraloctopus]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-48119099

The school is described as the 4th emergency service (yes, I know that's the coastguard/lifeboats) as they are providing a food bank service, helping get rid of head lice, running training courses on cooking on a budget, meanwhile they are having to make staff redundant because of budgets.

It shouldn't be like this, children and families are suffering whilst the rich get richer thanks to the government policies which take from the poor and give to the rich.

so what would you consider to be a acceptable maximum salary?

What on earth gave you the impression I would support salary caps?

As per my previous rant- capitalism WORKS, but that doesn't mean we should fool ourselves that (for example) Martin Sorrell morally deserves £50 million a year because he is 3000 times more competent than a nurse.

We should concentrate on finding the sweet spot which rewards individual achievement but makes the world steadily better.

I'm confident we agree more than we disagree here.

Indeed, I kind of got that, but once it starts there is just no stopping a rant :-)

don't discuss anything more intellectually taxing than the weather with 'libertarians' as it's a political philosophy for children.

Ok, I feel The socialism oozing out of your post.

I'm going to describe myself as a libertarian socialist, just to annoy you both :-)

Snuffalo can I ask for a libertarian viewpoint. How does a child born into the worst type of poverty work themselves out of it?

donquixotedelamancha apologies I miss read your post.

Snuffalo everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that’s ok.

Many people in these towns are in this position before they even have kids.

Sorry my post was meant for backwoodgirl not Snuffalo

This is my town.... our MP is Tory Brandon Lewis 🤷‍♀️

We have had UC rolled out here and as I work in the community have seen the devastation first hand it causes. Our local Labour councillors are fighting closure of our Sure Start centres.

Great Yarmouth was in BBC breakfast this morning to highlight the opportunity within the wind energy sector. We are a tiny town 2 hours away from the nearest motorway but we are a great little town and our residents do their best to look after one another in some difficult circumstances!

Tory Brandon 🙄

Brandon Lewis even

There's enough money for everyone, it's only numbers, the actual money doesn't exist.
This government like all other Tory governments just tax the rich less and make the poor poorer. It's always been the same and should come as no shock to anyone.

Those saying about the usual tv, phone, drinking and drugs which I'm sure does happen sometimes. Even if they are all the most feckless parents, which I don't buy, do their children deserve to go without.

How does a child born into the worst type of poverty work themselves out of it?

In a pure libertarian (tax is theft, no substantial apparatus of state) society they would need to lift themselves from poverty through their own efforts: join a gang with other poor kids and rob the rich.

This country is so drastically different than it was 10 years ago and that terrifies me. I used to be able to get a same day doctors appointment and even home visits. They were kind and patient. Benefits were more available and the DWP were less harsh. Schools used to compete to be the best meaning most students did well. I used to be able to pay cheap prices for drink, food, fuel, property, everything really! I dread to think what things will be like in another 10 years

Regardless of the party in power, a child is the responsibility of the parent not the state or the rich. Treating head lice, washing clothes, feeding a child are all parenting basics.

Children come with needs and costs, it seems such a surprise to many whilst others think someone else should pick up the costs.

@FloweryButton actually I think there's an argument that youth centres that work well could actually reduce county lines and child trafficking by gangs .

Yeah like Surestart and youth clubs are gonna stop county lines. Some people live in a stupid bubble and have no contact with reality.

If you take away options for deprived children, they're more likely to get recruited into gangs and drugs.

How does a child born into the worst type of poverty work themselves out of it?

However the individual wishes. For instance

Complete school, become an apprentice, get experience and start their own business

Martin Luther King Jr's words come to mind:
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

100% inheritance tax

Snuffalo so when someone dies members of their family won’t be allowed to inherit anything to remember their grandmother/mother/whatever relation?

Complete school, become an apprentice, get experience and start their own business
So you agree that tax payers should fund state education then?

but I can't see how they're to blame for children having head lice

Have you seen the cost of head lice treatments recently?

FFS @backwoodsgirl how do free schools exist in your taxation-is-theft libertarian utopia? Just start there. Think about it. Schools exist because of taxation. Roads to get to the school exist because of taxation. On and on and on. Libertarianism is intellectually bankrupt and so are the people who believe in it. There is NO example of a functioning libertarian society. If you'd like to check out Socialism, head to Finland, or Norway, or Iceland, or Sweden, or the Netherlands...

janetforpresident SignedUpJust4This et al;

Yes I do know this person and it came to light via someone else who does go to the food bank and would bloody starve if she didnt. She has four children and the waste of space that was her husband has pissed off and left her to cope with that plus a lot of debt thats come to light but shes bloody proud and is doing her dammdest to stand on her own two feet which shes doing and most of the time she makes do and mends etc. Fortuenatly she is helped out via her now elderly parents. Her children may not have the best trainers but they are fed and loved!

And yes signed upo4this I do expect that there are a lot of children who do get just the one decent meal every day and that is at school. Be that was the headmisrtress, bless her!, implieng that some parents either can't cook or won't and reley on junk food we don't quite know.

It is a cost of living or for some existing issue. It does surprise me that we are having people in privated rented accomodation who are struggling to pay the rent as council or housing assocation isnt there, that is for me a big issuse even if i am a private landloard and do take a sumpatiyhc line with a single parent who is one of my tenants. The others are young proffesional sharers who can afford the rent.

A lot of private rented acommodation is in use for the wrong type of tenant that just should not be there in that accomoidation. But what has any goverment done over that for many years and even if Tatcher sold off housing to the tenants who own it that it still does not increase the overall housing stock and did Blair Brown May do anything ever since?.

Furthermore this does not seem to be a big political issue anywhere.

As Tory govment will do what it does a labour one will do what it does as well neither are perfect far from it. I do still prefer a tory capilist goverment even with its shortcomings and surely a Labour party led by Corybyn does anyone want him?

Yes capitlaism can work for most things soclialisim can work better for others the problem is getting that balance and that -- is trhe difficult thing perhaps the UK needs a sea change but is it happening elsewhere? can it happen? rich and poor are found in most all countries what model do we follow?

Even if there is one anywhere.

@Southwestten obviously an allowance for personal mementoes, plus some money for a funeral and burial/cremation , would be included. If granny wants you to have her diamonds she can give them to you while she's still alive and pay a gift tax if their value passes the threshold for it.

how do free schools exist in your taxation-is-theft libertarian utopia?

They don’t, however help for the poorest in society is built in at town level. Help fro the poor is available but not at a state level.

I have looked at the socialist utopias, why didn’t Venezuela make your list?

Have you seen the cost of head lice treatments recently

About £6 for treatment or even less for a comb and conditioner. A tiny cost compared to the yearly cost of having a child.

Children may well be able to work themselves out of poverty if they are in an area with a good school (not drastically underfunded) wih a stable home life, food on the table and supportive aspirational parents. Unfortunately that is not the life many children are born into and expecting them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps is wholly unfair and punishes children who are born into a cycle of poverty through no fault of their own.