To think alot of men still think of women as inequal?

[Moofreemum1]

Reading the relationship boards and it's just shocking the amount of men that abuse women. Whether it be emotional/physical/financial. I just feel they still see as as unequal to them. We should be seen and not heard. They work, therefore we do everything else.
I myself was emotionally/mentally and financially abused. I know he would have gone to physical eventually. I'm 2 and a half years on and I'm so angry at the way he treated me. Usually I'm a strong person who is confident and outgoing yet he managed to chip me down. I will never let another man do that to me again.
Also another thing aside from abuse but think they link is women in the workplace. I get called bossy quite often, but if I man were to be this way it would be accepted more and men would "respect" them for taking the lead. I still feel like there is so much inequality between the sexes and it makes me so angry/sad.
AIBU to think this??

Plenty of men would never dream of physically hurting their partners, but still at some level think of them as a cross between a pet and a household appliance.

So true!

I agree that a lot of men think of women as unequal. A lot of women do too though. That’s not to say women are to blame for men’s actions, they’re not. But we can control and change our own actions and attitudes and what we pass on to our daughters. How many times on mn have I heard women with awful sexist attitudes or who proudly claim not to be feminists. I don’t think we can change one sex’s attitudes in isolation.

Also we should not be minimising domestic abuse when women are the perpetrators. Ofc the majority of domestic abusers are men but we shouldn’t be ignoring or minimising when women are abusers.

@53rdway yes!!!! I despair at the posts I see about this type of thing. Unfortunately some of my friends put up with this crap too.

Plenty of men would never dream of physically hurting their partners, but still at some level think of them as a cross between a pet and a household appliance.

Lots of people, especially women, will say to me how lucky I am that DH doesn't mind looking after the DC, how lucky I am that he does housework, how lucky I am that he's so laid back and let's me do as I please, and so on.

And j think, why is that luck? Surely should be the standard in a relationship?

@53rdway yes exactly this!! Yes it's not abuse but inequality in the sense they feel their time and needs are more important because the woman is "suppose" to cater to them and look after the home/family. Hate this

I have come across men who think this way but I usually just stop bothering with them when they show their true colours. There are plenty of men out there who are just normal people and see women as normal people, and those are the ones I choose to spend my time with.

Occassionally you're forced into spending time with the idiotic men due to work or it being a father in law or something, and in those cases it's extremely frustrating. But if you're talking about friends and partners it's simple to avoid the idiotic people.

I have witnessed it. I have challenged it. I have never suffered it.

It is a choice. Sometimes at work I see an email: "hello ladies". I challenge and correct to colleagues. I have sat in outpatients where every man has been called as Mr and every woman as Jane Doe. I challenge it.

For years dh was the principal earner. I had a period as a sahm. Our leisure time was always equal.

In my 20s/early30s worked in a v male dominated industry and saw some sexism but never directed at me. A quick and silent "fuck off" through a smile was all it took. No need to complain. Now I am a Director of my service. I hear about it a lot but a great deal and I wish I knew the answer or why I haven't experienced it.

I have witnessed it. I have challenged it. I have never suffered it

You are wrong. Because it's a natural bias. You will have suffered from it and not even been aware.

Yes, challenge it. But dont believe that you have been impacted it.

havent been impacted by it.

I think putthatlampshadeonyourhead you are confusing experiencing something with suffering it. One can only suffer something, excepting illness, if one allows it. My stepfather for instance is a sexist bigot. I experience it, but I do not allow myself to suffer it. I challenge him and he has zero influence over me. He doesn't influence my mother much either - she has the economic power in the relationship and will happily tell him to shut up although regrettably at 83 her views are stereotypical about the roles of women.

But you do, because at the very least there will be decisions made at work that, will in some way impact you. Without you even being aware that every day sexism is part of it.

Having to deal with a sexist airbag, is an impact on you. You have to be aware of the problem and spot it. That's an impact. That wouldn't be taking up any brain space, if equality wasnt an issue.

Decisions such as lampshade. I went back to work at 43, took prof quals and am now a director of service. In my 20s I had a career in the City - sales/trading floor based. Sexism has never, ever hindered me. I have never ever felt at a disadvantage as a woman.

I've experienced IRL too but most commonly I get it online (because I rarely leave the house). I'm a gamer (don't hate me) and had a whole evening on Friday where almost every game involved me being had a go at just for being female.

I had one guy single me out, tell me "girls shouldn't play video games" (I'm in my 30s so hardly a "girl") even though a guy on our team was doing much worse than me. That guy got zero abuse (he gave me some though) and was generally playing badly compared to everyone else. I kept up with most of the rest of the team AND gave calls (info is helpful in team games so I risk it despite knowing I'll probably get abuse just for talking) but I'm the bad guy because I'm female. 🙄

Some guys will shout abuse at other guys, which I'm not saying is okay either, but the majority of the time I'm the target because I'm female.

Oh and they never listen to a word I say either. They'll only listen when a guy in the game says exactly what I've just said.

Yes. Most of them to greater ir lesser degrees.

The effects of sexism accumulate. Perhaps any one disadvantage or bias can be overcome but when you have several disadvantages and or prejudices to contend with the aggregate affect is pretty damning.

Like @ohtheroses my friend wants to believe there is no inequality. She paid her male garderner more per gour than she paid her cleaner. She paid her painter/handyman more per hour more than she paid the woman who looked after her dc after school. Market rates etc but she chose to go with those and didnt challenge them. She didnt see it. But she told me with all seriousness that there is no sexism in the workplace any more.

“But she told me with all seriousness that there is no sexism in the workplace any more.”

There is but it is improving. I worked on trading floors on the 80s. That environment at least had changed beyond recognition. Sexist behaviour that was considered normal then would result in instant dismissal now. There is a pretty good male/female ratio now too (though not at senior levels, much improvement is needed there.)

But I'd pay a female gardener the same as a male gardener. Both my DC have babysat and DD was paid more than DS.

Your comparison is not comparing like with like.

Actually just thought about this. My cleaner gets £60 for 4 hours. My gardener £60 for 2 hours but there are two men.

Same rate - male gardeners work in all weathers and it's more physical.

As I get older, I become increasingly certain that Germain Greer's comment is right - women would be surprised at just how much men hate them.

Oh rubbish. Perhaps if GG had been rather less insufferable more people would have liked her. She was never an inspiring role model imo and it's hardly surprising she felt so much negativity in the world. Smile and the world smes with you.

OhTheRoses the point is that traditionally female work is much worse paid than traditionally male work. Nurses and teachers paid less per hour than electricians or plumbers, nannies paid less than handymen, etc. I don't think that these, and many other, traditionally female roles are less skilled, less valuable, or less demanding than the traditionally male ones.

Decisions such aslampshade.

Such as the decision to hire you at all or what wage you get. If you think that no one involved has had any bias against you, you are living in cloud cookoo land.

I have a very senior role in the worlds largest private employer. I do really well, and get paid more than my Male equivalents. That doesnt mean I am not impacted by inequality.

Yes and I work with a couple. Judging by the abuse some have had, there are many in the Labour Party who think the same.

RuggyPeg

Or maybe it’s just her? I’m a woman and she gets on my bloody nerves.

I agree with you OP but I just wanted to answer a post rather than the main topic - sorry!

@Putthatlampshadeonyourhead your post saying ‘Also there are quite a man at work who has to share his location and call his wife at set times, at least 3 times a day. He isnt allowed to come to company work events and people treat it like it's a joke ' call him under thumb' etc.‘

Has actually made me cry because this is exactly what my ex used to do/tell his job but in reality he called me to make sure I was where I was supposed to be/check I’d done all the things he’d told me to/check the phone wasn’t engaged because I was on it and not because I made him and he wouldn’t go on work nights out incase I ran away or called someone or didn’t stay at home. Then he’d hit me because he couldn’t go on team nights out and his colleagues used to joke he was under the thumb and it was ‘my fault’. Things aren’t always as they seem and abusers are very clever at making sure no one other than their victim sees them for who they are. My ex made everyone think I was the controlling one while I was literally locked up.

I also read an article about financial abuse, the women who felt financially abused couldn’t use the heating or buy food or sanitary products, the men couldn’t go to a football game or buy beer.

Most men I know say their ‘ex is crazy’ eg she found out he was cheating and left.

I do feel that men feel a general disrespect for women.

I was appointed director last year. I get more than my male predecessor. I also have to approve all senior salary scale offers. I find your last comment very offensive. I make those decisions where I work.

Equality and abuse are two separate issues.

Yes...there are men who still don't see women as equal. It's getting better, but we're still on the journey.

However, it's no different to people who don't see black people as equal. As I belong to both of those groups I live it. Things are getting better though and continue to improve.

Women often have to fight harder to get what their male counterparts do. It's like they have to prove themselves more and be more resilient when in senior positions.

I would say many women.lack confidence due to historic oppression and don't always know their worth, making it easier to put them down.