...to think needing a degree to progress is an outdated way of thinking?

[Iflippinghateplaydoh]

I (clearly) don't have a degree, I left 6th form and went to a business college and then spent 6 years working as a manager in my 20s.
I moved companies and went to a non-management role but a lot more money.
Now in early 30s and my children are at school I'd love to progress back into a manager role at this company that I've been at for 5 years (of which there are many manager roles here) however as I don't have a degree it's impossible.
Open uni will take me years

Although there's nothing I can do to change it, AIBU to feel like experience should be taken into account sometimes rather than saying "without a degree you can't go anywhere".

I love the company and am so frustrated as I'm more than capable and have been told so on many occasions, but if they accept 1 in without a degree it opens up a whole new can of worms so they won't budge.

Is this standard across most industries?

Or AIBU to think it's a bit of an old fashioned way of thinking?

I think experience is as valuable as qualifications especially when you are talking about a 40k jump in salary. There has to be some standards set, yes there is always an exception to the rule but I agree with your company that there has to be some set of minimum standards set out. Just as you would not expect someone to come straight out of uni and get a managerial job they would need some experience too. Maybe if you enquire into it, your company might help finance you to get your qualifications.

I agree, it's ridiculous

I don't want to say too much as it's outing, but I have a degree, my sister does not.

My sister is nearly 50 and has battled prejudice in spite of years experience in her work.

I had a friend ask me if I would apply for a job at her place, and found I couldn't because they only let people with 2:1 degrees apply.

The irony was, my friend was asking because they'd had a lot of trouble filling the position - but she herself thought the 2:1 barrier was a really good idea, and was amazed when she found I didn't have one. I do have an MA! But not good enough, arbitrary rules are more important.

I spent most of my degree working in a job which was brilliant, because I left uni with savings. So I regret nothing

Jobs that my generation went into straight after school now seem to require degrees. Total bollocks.

It is an old-fashioned way of thinking, especially given the number of people who go to university, and end up with debts that will take them years to pay off. My boss never went to university and neither did three of my colleagues (or perhaps more), and they are just as capable at their jobs.

It is generally used to filter out the 2000 additional applications they would get from those who are forced by the jobcentre to apply for 40 jobs a week or whatever the figure is now.

I saw an advert for a bar job the other week where a degree was required 🤨

On the opposite side of that argument I was once turned down by Aldi for 'being over qualified'. I don't have a degree but I have equivalent with my nebosh certificate/diploma. I had been out of work for a year after redundancy and I just wanted an entry level job that would work around ttc and potential kids 🤷

Most firms are falling over themselves to improve diversity at the moment. Question the promotion criteria with your diversity officer/hr on the basis that it is hindering social mobility (and possibly also racial diversity). Find the stats to support that fewer people from certain socio economic backgrounds or races are likely to have degrees.

In some jobs it might be necessary with a degree in some not. As you have not specified what kind of business you are in, it is really hard to say.

I have spent a lot of time the last 3 years fixing errors, some quite serious ones as well, caused by our local office in this country being started up by someone without a degree. It seems he thought, that all he needed was to get an office, some furniture, and remember to pay taxes regarding the admin staff. It is sheer dumb luck, that all health and safety regulations have been complied with, because those kinds of rules were stricter in his home country and he just followed those rules instead of the British ones.

Reminds me of a couple many years ago who had been to uni, qualified and then worked in their chosen profession.

I mentioned that someone I knew owned a company in their field of work.

First thing out of their mouth was which university he went to.

He didn’t go to uni as at that age he spent his time running and hiding from the Nazis and came to England with the clothes he stood up in and didn’t speak any English.

They made out that there was no way he could have started a company without a degree and he was probably just in a junior position and I had got it wrong or my friend was lying.

Nothing would convince them otherwise.

The filtering out/pseudo shortlisting one is not one I had thought of, though can understand why.

@Mumminmum to be fair a lot of graduates wouldn't know that stuff either

Think about it. You are in a pool of people, all good at their job for various reasons. They all have been in the job between 3-5 years and know job / company well. All are hard working. Some have degrees others have qualifications and some have just work experience. Now you decide, how to go about selecting a manager that is able to think and reason, a manager that is respected and could could have potential beyond the management position.

Look at it another way. You have a pool of people with a range of experience all the way from 6 months in the job, to 25 years and helped to build the company. Which one do you promote in that situation? Obviously it's a matter of degree (pun intended), but qualifications per se don't trump ALL experience & vice versa.

I have spent a lot of time the last 3 years fixing errors, some quite serious ones as well, caused by our local office in this country being started up by someone without a degree. It seems he thought, that all he needed was to get an office, some furniture, and remember to pay taxes regarding the admin staff. It is sheer dumb luck, that all health and safety regulations have been complied with, because those kinds of rules were stricter in his home country and he just followed those rules instead of the British ones.

A degree in an unrelated subject, or even one from his home country where regulations are different, wouldn't have helped in that situation. Experience in a similar role however would have, with or without university education.

People born in the 60's & earlier just didn't go onto further education in the numbers they do nowadays, fewer than 1 in 10 did any further education beyond 18, and probably only about 25-30% even stayed at school to do A Levels. So I've found myself turned down for jobs that I've been doing well for decades because I don't have a degree, whereas they will consider a 21 year old who has never worked in an office who does.

When I wanted to return to work when my youngest started school I discovered that my A levels weren’t good enough and the jobs I’d done before now needed a degree. Now my DD is discovering that the jobs she did before DC require a masters.

A way to circumnavigate this would be to do a professional qualification that equates to a degree or masters. Most job adverts say educated to degree or equivalent.

I did CIM professional postGrad diploma in Marketing. Has helped me get several jobs.

This is an interesting discussion. I am in a field which requires specific technical knowledge (civil engineering) which is generally in the form of a BEng /MEng abd then professional qualification as a Chartered Engineer.

I realised a couple of year ago that the 3 people I work/have worked with do not have degrees, but all started in the industry as school leavers on BTEC or HND day release/night classes. The person who is most strikingly good at his job is now -at nearly 50 - doing an MEng on day release as a condition of a recent promotion. although he is great at what our particular organisation does (he started 2 years after leaving school, so has been with the organisation for over 30 years), he admits that he would not be able to apply his knowledge so well to different areas of civil engineering, which is why he has never looked to leave.

Instead of doing a degree you could always start your own company.

I have had so many jobs (between 20-50)

I don’t think I am cut out to work for some one else.
I know I am definitely not qualified to go to work reading some of these posts.

I think what this thread missing is the value of education and the university experience for its own sake.

I was probably lower end of working class living on a remote Scottish island. My prime motivator for going to university was to escape a lifelong job in the fish! Thanks to inspiring teachers and a love of reading I was the only one of five kids to get any school qualifications.

If I hadn't gone to university I would not have known so much of life existed. I mixed with people from all over the world, and met, and am still in touch with, MPs, former and current government ministers (all parties ex Ukip), film & TV directors, journalists, well known musicians, CEO of one of the world's largest companies, mental health experts, charity campaigners, leading scientists and so on. It's unlikely I would have tried scuba diving or canoeing or debating. I worked in bars and restaurants (no funding from parents and DF refused to fill in a grant form as "no one's getting to know my business") which was useful in itself.

Even if I had moved to the mainland for work, I'd never have experienced all of that. Of course, there are other ways to live. I'm incredibly grateful that I was able to have the experience I did.

I can understand the need to have a degree
To get in. My company can get 750 applications for a few roles. How else are they to sift them? But if you start at a level that doesn't require a degree then you only have to do a few years at that grade before you can apply for the next level up which external candidates will require a degree
For

I've never once been asked to produce proof of my degree qualification in any job I've had. If only I'd known, I could have claimed to have a First and several postgraduate degrees.

Same here. Never asked to prove it. It makes me wonder if some people do just lie on their cv.

I went to university and got a Diploma of Higher Education in Nursing - this was before the BSc was mandatory. It was a 3 year course with only the final year being different to the degree - the degree needed a dissertation and was taught at level 6, not not level 5.

I don’t think it’s stopped me getting jobs. I have a few specialist qualifications on my CV too.

Over the past decade, I’ve done a few Open University modules and used some of the DipHe credits to get a BA Hons from the OU. It’s one of their “Open Degrees” but I’ve focused it on English Literature and Education.

Going to do a PGCE in the future

I agree with you. It really concerns me due to the debt levels young people have to get in to have something that they'll never really use except as a tick box exercise.

There should be more vocational courses specifically for different sectors like engineering. The need for a degree holds back talented but not necessarily academic people from progressing and it's a waste.

@SnuggyBunny. That is true. It had to be someone with a relevant degree and some experience.

A degree doesn't mean they are experts. I had to explain the difference between credit and debit to one of my managers, who had a Master's degree in some sort of economics or finance and I had a coworker who also had one of those degrees who could not understand double bookkeeping. I tried to explain it, I found two different explanations on the internet. No. Didn't get it. He still thought it was some dodgy way to cheap the government or the shareholders or something.

I agree with you. It really concerns me due to the debt levels young people have to get in to have something that they'll never really use except as a tick box exercise.

There should be more vocational courses specifically for different sectors like engineering. The need for a degree holds back talented but not necessarily academic people from progressing and it's a waste.

I think degrees are ubiquitous now so if you don’t have one you’re even more at a disadvantage climbing the career ladder. I have a degree but atm not in a grad job, although myself and colleagues doing similar roles are, as I suppose we all had career breaks post-children. I have had grad jobs in the past though.
I graduated in the mid-90s when not as many people went to uni although it was growing in popularity then and most of my contemporaries from those days did get a degree. Maybe it was just the circles I mixed in though.
I don’t have maths gcse though which has been a disadvantage in my life (I got a D and should’ve retaken really, now it would be mandatory to retake).

Student loans don’t really count though. They only start to be paid back on earnings of £25000 a month. Didn’t stop me getting a mortgage and I pay around £10 a month directly from my salary. After 30 years they are written off.

Unless specific knowledge or expertise is required then I think experience and potential are all that should count. I say that has someone who works in an expertise led field and has lots of qualifications. I'd rather have a good manager than a qualified one.