...to think needing a degree to progress is an outdated way of thinking?

[Iflippinghateplaydoh]

I (clearly) don't have a degree, I left 6th form and went to a business college and then spent 6 years working as a manager in my 20s.
I moved companies and went to a non-management role but a lot more money.
Now in early 30s and my children are at school I'd love to progress back into a manager role at this company that I've been at for 5 years (of which there are many manager roles here) however as I don't have a degree it's impossible.
Open uni will take me years

Although there's nothing I can do to change it, AIBU to feel like experience should be taken into account sometimes rather than saying "without a degree you can't go anywhere".

I love the company and am so frustrated as I'm more than capable and have been told so on many occasions, but if they accept 1 in without a degree it opens up a whole new can of worms so they won't budge.

Is this standard across most industries?

Or AIBU to think it's a bit of an old fashioned way of thinking?

I agree with you but could you persuade them to let you do a degree apprenticeship?

Currently doing one at the age of 45 (okay is my company) cost £900 a year and mixture of uni and work based. Come out with a leadership / management degree at the end.

Have you been promoted where you currently work?

Sometimes people they don't want to promote are told this as most won't go get a degree. A friend of mine was told this and she did go get the degree. Still wasn't promoted.

I'm just finishing my first year undergrad. In fairness the profession I'm going in to does need the degree, but the reason I'm doing the degree is before I decided what I wanted to do every bloody job wanted a degree. I'm 47 and been working part time prior to this.

Most jobs attract a ridiculous number of applicants these days - many of whom are applying to keep their numbers up for their benefits. One way to reduce this is by putting in certain criteria.

If a job ad says degree educated, don't take it literally. Apply anyway and if you make a good application, there's a chance you'll make it past that first screen.

The other thing I've noticed recently is an increasing number of bright, talented young people not going to university and going straight into jobs. Having a degree isn't the indicator of intelligence or learning it once was.

I agree. A degree doesn't mean you have the first clue how to be a manager. I think the scattergun approach to applying for jobs these days has meant recruiters inevitably have to be a bit blunt when sorting through applications.

You're working for the wrong company. The last place I worked, I was one of less than 10% with a degree and it was never a factor in anyone's promotion. You'd do well in small manufacturing companies run by people who worked their way up from apprenticeship level. My old manager, a director, had come in via the YTS. The MD had been an apprentice in the factory. A lot of my colleagues had left school with nothing at all, but their experience was considered valuable.

Brace yourself, because the degree requirements are now basic requirements.

You use to be able to progress in pretty much every field without one, but that's a thing of the past in this country. It's a shame. I can think of so many very senior positions where the current people wouldn't get their job today, and they are very aware of that.

I know people with absolutely pointless degrees they will never use. It’s just needless debt looming over them.

I don’t think everyone should go to uni at all, only people who plan to actually use the bloody degree.

I have a degree in a field where you need a degree (nursing) personally i think it been a degree or a some other kind of course doesnt matter as long as the same contents are covered.

I agree that after a while experience becomes much more important than a degree in most fields.

To generalise massively, i often hear older generations bemoaning all the 20 year olds who "dont need a degree" However....

If your 20 year old starting your career how do you gain that experience? Our family business (in an attractive field... think media/comms ) gets lots of similar applications from school leavers/uni leavers with zero experience. Our field 100%values experience over a degree but to even join in our apprentice type role, or assistant roles then youll be up against lots of people with degrees.

I think degrees are now the gcse of our generation, where you dont really need a gcse in cooking or a degree but you need some way of getting that first foot on the rung. In our industry its difficult to gain that experience without a degree.

Once degrees became so common, they became standard rather than exception. When past generations got their jobs they werent applying in the same circumstances people are now.

We certainly have some staff who did it the old fashioned way of getting experience but these are often people whos family money allowed them to take unpaid roles, or had family connections. However this is the exception not the norm

It needs to be a society change, where people on a wider scale revaluate our current higher education system, rather than encouraging one individual not to go to uni when the rest of their school year have

This infuriates me. There are no degrees that directly benefit my profession, yet I see "Degree essential" on pretty much all job adverts. I've been doing the job for 20 years but obviously some idiot with a degree in leisure and tourism my field is not leisure and tourism would be far better qualified than me by this way of thinking

Have you actually looked at the detail of getting a degree? Most (virtually all) offer APEL for work experience and relevant qualifications, it might not take you too long.

You could also look at management qualifications.

Apparently 25% of graduates are over qualified for their jobs, I think that’s probably an underestimate. With so many people having degrees they’ve become meaningless.

As a side point, I graduated 33 years ago and have never been asked for proof of my degree in any selection process ...

The thing is, degrees are so common these days rather than being necessarily “outdated” they will be able to find loads of candidates with a degree so no real need for them to make concessions or change the policy. But yes I agree, with how common degrees are what does it really signal now?

I get where you’re coming from. My company lists all vacancies with a requirement of at least a 2.1 honors degree in a certain number of fields. A lot of what we do is common Sense and gut feelings and only certain people will understand the niche job my team does. We had to fight to employ someone who did amazingly well at interview but wasn’t qualified.

There was a time when the possibility of acquiring a degree was open to only about ten percent of the population. Degrees were necessary for the professions, but there were plenty of opportunities in alternative types of education, for people to train for a career, usually on the job training. Experience was gained and valued at the same time.

Then it was decided that a university education should be accessible to e erroneous, which devalued the qualification and led to a range of degrees that were not necessarily useful for future employment.

Now, young people and their parents assume a university education. I don’t think it’s necessary for everyone and I’d value experience and competence over a piece of paper.

I have more than one degree but I totally agree with you. I think your company is shortsighted. I would much rather have a member of the team who has proven herself than one who has no experience but a degree. But I am from a different era clearly.

I don't have a degree and went straight into work at 18. By 23 I was what was known as a grade 5. I was encouraged to apply for a job internally that was a grade 8. Normally, you would never look at going for a role more than one, maybe two grades higher. I got the job. Because of the nature of the role, the interview panel included someone from an outside agency who said my test piece was the best he had seen "in some years" (I was shown his report after I'd accepted the job). I was told they couldn't promote me straight to grade 8 as while I had the skills I hadn't had a job in this particular field before but they expected I would be promoted to the 8 after 12 months. I was promoted after 6 months. At 24, I was the youngest manager in the company, one of the largest insurance firms in the UK. I was earning far more than all of my friends who had degrees and was able to buy a house before the prices went stupid.

That's not meant as any sort of boast, I merely want to show that degrees are not necessarily any sort of guarantee if the company is a good one to begin with.

I know work in a totally different industry for much less money but far more enjoyable. Again, my lack of a degree has never been an issue.

Your company are very shortsighted if that’s their attitude! Can’t quite believe that they would hold back a good employee for tha. You could get a relevant professional qualification instead if you work in a particular field - those are harder in many cases than a degree and would be recognised by employers as being valuable. And your work might pay for it.
Or do an MAsters in an area where your experience is enough without a degree?
Alternatively - do a part-time degree in a subject that you love. Yes it takes a while but my mum did this, really enjoyed it, and it gave her something for herself outside of work and family. Plus she had a massive sense of achievement when she was finished- 5!years later.
I have a degree and I have to say NO ONE and I mean no employer in 30 years has asked for proof of it.

Sadly, it's just the way of the World now, and as someone suggested above, you just need to broaden your search to other firms who aren't quite so short-sighted. Your current employer's loss will be someone else's gain when you find an employer who values your experience more than a random/worthless piece of paper.

I have a professional qualification equivalent to a masters degree, but never went to Uni. I've been cast aside in recruitment processes even though my professional qualification couldn't be more relevant - the "tick box" culture required a piece of paper headed up called a "degree" which I couldn't produce. I once questioned it in an interview and was basically told they wanted someone with the "uni" experience - whatever that means - presumably the ability to get a degree whilst partying and drinking I suppose? (This was when I was in my 40's with 20 years of relevant experience behind me!).

It's the same with school exams. When I left in the early 80's, "C" grades were the norm - they were the passport to getting good jobs and very few people got Bs and even fewer got As. Now, 40 years later, they're devalued, and lots of employers are looking only for "A" grades - that's fine for today's school leavers, but it was a different world back then, so yet again, people are rejected for what are today considered to be mediocre or poor school qualifications, even though they're from a different era.

. We had to fight to employ someone who did amazingly well at interview but wasn’t qualified.

Do you know how they made it to the shortlist if they didn’t have the required person specification?

"Your company are very shortsighted if that’s their attitude!"

I agree. I am lucky because a couple of heads of department where I work don't have a degree, but they have the experience and the competency to carry out their roles. As a result they aren't fixated on only employees with degrees.

I do think that age should be taken into account as older employees will have far more experience (and possibly common sense), and less likely to have a degree. I don't have a degree, but know that I am well respected at work because I am good at what I do. My H.O.D. listens to me and my suggestions because she knows that I know what I am talking about.

I think it's the consequence of these so-called "anti-discrimination" transparent process in recruitment, and it will only get worst.
You have to tick boxes, you have to justify you are neither sexist/discriminatory/unfair and all these bollox. The result is you cannot easily employ just someone who you feel is a good fit for the team, you need to be able to justify why candidate x was chosen. Having a degree is one box.

Slightly off topic but those saying you need a degree for law, you don't. You can take the ILEX course whilst working to qualify as a Legal Executive which is in itself an excellent qualification. If you wish to continue to be a solicitor you can do a further course on top of that. The firms I worked for preferred the ILEX route as they got a an employee with a qualification and 4 years experience over a graduate with no real experience.

A degree is so common now that it is a marker for a level of effort that is put in.

I see a lot of degree bashing on MN saying that a lot of degrees are useless. That might be the case for some content. However there are a lot of skills that you gain that aren't content related that are transferable and are a marker for quality.

This isn't a competition as to whether people with degrees or people with more hand-on/workplace experience are better.

Nowadays, a degree sets you up for starting your adult life with a shed-load of debt whilst taking away three year's opportunity to gain experience and earn a living - it neither is nor isn't an unequivocal marker of effort. What about the effort to not get into debt?

Degrees are essential for some roles and very desirable for others, but for employers to somehow assume that having one naturally makes somebody an all-round much better person than somebody with other valuable skills and maybe many years of hands-on experience is just nasty.