Gavin Williamson “swearing on his DCs’ life”

[Loopytiles]

Sacked defence secretary says he didn’t leak from the National Security council, and reportedly “swore on his DCs’ life”.

I’m generally cynical and am no fan of Mr Williamson, but if he said this tend to believe him. It’s a rarely used phrase and not one I imagine parents would use if lying.

Am I being naive? Suppose that unless you’re superstitious, nothing bad will happen to your DC if you say it about a lie.

I think there should be a criminal investigation.

He has zero chance of PM and swearing blind doesn’t alter that.

I’m generally cynical and am no fan of Mr Williamson, but if he said this tend to believe him. It’s a rarely used phrase and not one I imagine parents would use if lying.

What does this actually mean? It mwans nothing, it's an empty phrase, it isn't like it goves May permission to kill his kids or they'll be struck by lightning if he's lying does it?

I agree that for TM to sack him so publically and state she believes it is him, then it must be so.
Why did he do it? Was he paid?
I also agree swearing on children's lives is juvenile and not something you do as a professional.

Investigative powers are irrelevant, if the law has been broken, referral to the police is the appropriate action.

I don’t read the gutter press.

Some on this thread are imputing to May an integrity that she has never shown any sign of possessing.

I think it's an awful thing to say.

I agree that for TM to sack him so publically and state she believes it is him, then it must be so.

See above.

I have. I don't agree.

Nothing would surprise me after Lance Armstrong's so earnest performance. Nothing. Some people have such sang froid, but no integrity.

Good news is that his job has gone to someone who repeatedly lied on national tv. A known and bare faced liar has replaced someone who may or may not have lied.

Everything that comes out of Penny Mordaunt's mouth should have a warning that she may be lying like she unashamedly lied before. Every question should be covered with a 'Are you lying now, like you did before?' and 'How do we know you're not lying as you repeatedly lied on Andrew Marr?'

And she gets promoted. What a shower!

If TM has sacked him in a fit of pique at the mere fact that he spoke to a journalist, rather than requiring the investigation to satisfy her as to the contents of the discussion, then she is even more disastrous than I had previously given her credit for.

Anyway it was a good day for Chris Grayling, whose hugely costly cancellations of no-deal ferry contracts got shunted down the news agenda.

People do this all the time on Jeremy Kyle. Swear on children's lives, grandfather's ashes etc. They then fail a lie detector and admit they were lying.

I think you're confused Tatiana.

It's subjective if he should face criminal charges and she has not said he won't. Investigative powers are not irrelevant. People like Mi5 have much much more power than the police, you trust them daily to keep you safe, why don't you trust them with this.

And you have to stop thinking of Teresa May as just some person. She's the prime minister, she commands a huge amount of resources, and the best ones our country has. She will have had legal advise, and some of the best legal advice in the world. She didn't just sit in bed and think fuck it, must be him, think I'll fire him and publicly accuse him.

So the point is if she publicly states it's been investigated, and there is irrefutable evidence it was him, my take is to believe that. Because the people who provided that evidence, and the people who reviewed it, are not politicians. Not even close. They are top security officials and lawyers, that is who investigated it, who provided it to her and who advised her.

Williamson swearing he didn't do it on his kids life doesn't change that.

And if TM thinks it is Williamson, he needs to be investigated properly.

Well I can’t agree that for May to say something publically means anything at all. We have ample evidence of her duplicity, dishonesty, u-turns, and evasion.

After reading posters’ thoughts on this I am no longer inclined to believe him, and going to be cynical about other people who say this!

Bluntness, it’s very clear from your amusingly naive and rather convoluted defence of the political establishment, that I am not the one who is confused.

Your line is, in essence, that you believe her because she is PM.

That’s fine, but that’s all it amounts to.

According to the papers he was on the phone to the Daily Telegraph for 11 minutes after that meeting. He did not deny that but still says he didn’t leak. ‘On his children’s lives’ He is pathetic. And a liar and a leak.

My line is clearly not I believe her because she is pm, and I thought I'd given very lengthy and simple reasons as to why I believe it to be likely.

And I will say it once again. I believe it because he was investigated by the top security agencies we have, and because our top legal counsel has reviewed it and agreed her course of action. That's why I believe it.

Teresa May is nothing more than the figure head here.

I would never use that phrase but it does suggest he's telling the truth. He has a right to a proper investigation. This will stick with him the rest of his life. I'm actually disgusted with the PM about this. You couldn't be fired like that anywhere else could you?

Afraid when someone swears on their children's lives, my default position is that they are likely to be lying. It's a rarely used phrase by most people OP, but s very common one by liars.

He was on the phone for 11mins straight after the meeting to the journo who's story it was leaked in. On R4 just now they said it would have been along the lines of "SO Gav, if I wrote XYZ would I look like an idiot?"

The reason he is protesting is because this could end up with him getting a criminal conviction.

Makes you wonder why he thinks swearing on his own life wouldn't be seen as a high bar .

Which, as I said, is simply a defence of the political establishment, and is based on belief rather than hard evidence.

I don't know where you are from OP but, as others have said, ime this is phrase widely used but pretty much exclusively by liars.

If you are telling the truth you don't need to over-egg it by making meaningless statements like that.

As soon as I read it my automatic assumption was that he's lying.

You couldn't be fired like that anywhere else could you?

Of course you could! Any disciplinary action is based on the balance of probabilities, people in normal jobs are sacked for far, far less day in day out.

The difference is he gets to keep his job as an MP. How many other people would get to continue in their job after such a serious breach?

I thought a very weird thing for a politician to say

surely if you are convinced of your innocence you would welcome an open investigation (even if it's a criminal investigation) rather than saying 'I swear on my children's lives'

it's a bit like 'I pinky promise I didn't do it!'

Both the GW sacking and the Grayling ferry contract situation are the subject of Urgent Questions for debate in the Commons today.