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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want final say on where DD goes to sixth form?

29 replies

Thatdilemma · 01/05/2019 17:28

This is totally outing but I need advice.

Before anyone jumps in let me explain! Apologies for the length.

DD changed school due to bullying when she was 13. She has always found school difficult, been very quiet and shy and unconfident due to her SEN and social skills.
There was a school nearby which was a lot smaller and we felt would meet her needs (some Sen) better as a result.
Academically she struggles but was easily on target for C/4 grades and higher in a couple of areas.

The first six months were wonderful. It's very small, the staff know her well and she was getting Sen support she had been missing elsewhere.
She was happy at school for the first time in her school life and seemed to be thriving. I was being told all the right things about her grades. She had consistent friends for the first time too.

The next months were a nightmare. Firstly DD started to not focus and chat with her friends which we all took as a positive sign social development wise but needed to reign it in. Secondly she made friends with a girl who has some quite serious issues mental health wise and we had a lot of problems with the effect on DD which I didn't feel they dealt with well.

School then was put into special measures in every area, lost around 80% of its staff and struggled recruiting both pupils and staff.
We had a turbulent time, some teaching wasn't good enough , all but one of her teachers changed including the head and Senco and it was a nightmare.
Dd didn't cope at all and was horrendous at home, exploding all the times, refusing to go, refusing to stay in noisy classes, panic attack in school etc.
Still throughout this apart from Maths which went from a 5 to a 2 I was told 4 and 5s still.
Up to February half term this year now in year 11 she was still kicking off at home constantly about school and literally counting down to leaving on a reduced timetable.

In February of this year suddenly it all changed.
She went back to being positive about school and trying again. I've no idea what the change was although I suspect a friendship change and the new Senco finally seemed to gain her trust.
However she did her mocks in March and her grades are awful. We are going to be lucky to scrape 2/3s.

She has place offers for level 3 based on her predicted grades which are nowhere near where she actually is but they will put her on a lower course.

At parents evening it was mentioned if she stayed in sixth form she could continue on to Btec level 3 as she is currently doing a btec level 1/2 and they know her.

DD has decided this is a great idea because..

She loves the Senco
She knows the route and building.
She likes the staff member of the btec subject and English teacher. (Both are great to be fair)
It's familiar.
She could do two years instead of 3/4 at college.
The Btec teacher does get good grades.

I have issues because :

She has drove me literally to the brink exploding about school at home and we've had this 'honeymoon period' before.
The numbers are so low that there is a real possibility sixth form could close. A local one with only slightly lower numbers has.
The Senco could leave as could the teachers she likes.
I don't feel in many subject areas they were honest soon enough about how poor her grades had become.
The 'millions of pounds of amazing equipment' they boast about has never been used by DD since the open day! Teachers have moaned because there have been financial issues (DfE investigated them) and they've not been able to order what they've needed in some areas.
She HATES the maths teacher and has clashed all year with her and I feel if she got her for resits it would be detrimental.
Obviously entirely a minor point but DD hates things about school which she would not experience at college.
I also feel college would have given her a bit of space to find her own identity and people like her and a bit of space to grow up and she will still be treated like a child at school..

Help!

OP posts:
floraloctopus · 01/05/2019 17:33

Difficult one. Do they start the 6th form curriculum in the last weeks of term after the exams? My DCs school do this and so a few students who have had doubts have applied to the school 6th form and the local 6th form college and treated those few weeks as a 'taster' and then decided whether to stay on there or go to the 6th form college as that starts in September.

As your DD has SEN I don't think that would be an unreasonable course of action to take.

Thatdilemma · 01/05/2019 17:45

'Do they start the 6th form curriculum in the last weeks of term after the exams?'

Not as far as I know as a huge majority of kids will be new to the school for year 12 due to the pathways.

OP posts:
MirriVan · 01/05/2019 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OKBobble · 01/05/2019 17:57

If she does only get 2/3s but her school is prepared to let her do a level 3 course then that is a big factor. Will the 6th Form even take her with those grades? Even if they do presumably they will only let her do a level 2.

If the school was in special measures quite often they get a lot of support so that may actually be beneficial.

ConfCall · 01/05/2019 18:00

Hmmm tricky. I’d be inclined to let her have the final say, but make it very clear that she must make an INFORMED decision, taking your thoughts into account.

Thatdilemma · 01/05/2019 18:12

'If she does only get 2/3s but her school is prepared to let her do a level 3 course then that is a big factor. Will the 6th Form even take her with those grades? '

She would have 7 grades 1-3 probably and a btec in the subject area she wants to do at either level 1 or 2 depending on her score I believe.

College will take her on a level 1 and possibly 2 course if she gets enough 3s.

School subject teacher has said don't let them put her on a level 2 if she has already got a 2 and he would put her on a 3.

She has had an interview with the head of sixth form who said she can retake her maths and English and based on her now predicted stay there.

I'm worried if she only passes level 1 and not the level 2 and doesn't get 3s in Maths and English what happens then but I'm not getting any information back and DD is clear as mud!

OP posts:
Nearlythere1 · 01/05/2019 19:46

OP you're in a potentially lose-lose situation. If you make her move and it's a disaster, she will forever blame you (i have a brother this happened to). If she's stays by her own choice and it's a disaster, you will blame yourself for not intervening and blame her for making the wrong decision (this happened to me and my mum).

I don't know what to advise, I suppose you know it's lose-lose to some extent, which is why you're posting here. If you are thinking beyond the short-term or her immediate success, I would advise letting her do what she feels is right, and trying to bite your tongue if it does go wrong. That way the onus is on her, when she's a bit more grown-up, to understand that it was her decision, if you get me. And she will likely be more willing to bounce back from it. If things go badly in a place you have forced her to go, she will maybe hold a grudge (as my brother does), and it will become a great "get out of jail free" card for problems in the future, i.e. "well if mum hadn't made me do such-and-such it would all be fine".

Thatdilemma · 01/05/2019 19:49

Thank you nearlythere that is very useful!

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Nearlythere1 · 01/05/2019 19:52

Oh i'm glad to hear that, thank you!

Sculpin · 01/05/2019 19:58

My parents wanted me to change schools at sixth form (to a school with a great reputation so they thought the teaching would be better) but I wanted to stay with my friends. They let me make the final decision. Your situation is more complicated, with lots of different things going on, but basically I think she's old enough to decide.

Gomyownway · 01/05/2019 20:17

I chose to move at sixth form. Both my parents wanted me to stay. It was the best decision for me, and looking back if my parents had forced me to stay i would have hated it. Even if I’d regretted moving, at least I would have known it was my decision, and not have wondered ‘what ifs’

flyingspaghettimonster · 01/05/2019 21:54

I'm torn because on the one hand I feel parents do get a big say in where a kid goes to school, I recently moved my daughter to get her away from a boy and hopefully encourage better grades at a more academic school. On the other hand, I was forced to tske A levels I loathed in 6th form as my step dad thought the ones I wanted were a waste of time. Consequently I did very badly.

I think in this case I would let her choose if she can get her grades up and show effort.

aquashiv · 02/05/2019 04:19

Has she looked at other places and wants to stay if so let her decide. Part of becoming an adult is about making choices even getting it wrong do not change her mind support her.

mathanxiety · 02/05/2019 05:01

To be perfectly fair to DD, you chose the small school where she is now and it all went tits up for a while.

There really is no way to predict what might happen in the 6th form. Could be brilliant. Could be your worst nightmare. Meanwhile, DD seems to have settled a bit.

I would let her choose, but with some conditions about communication about issues instead of acting out, and about being open to trying new approaches to studying and not letting things get under her skin.

Maybe it's time to sit down and talk to her with great seriousness about her grades, her study habits, and to ask her for feedback on a regular basis on how she feels about her progress and her life in general. You also need to get to the bottom of what is going on with the maths teacher, and explore how she might cope better with clashes of personality or stresses in the classroom. She is ultimately working for herself, not the teacher - does she understand that?

In the coming year, keep in touch regularly with her teachers. Poor grades should not come as a surprise. Be the parent who is always on the phone.

hazell42 · 02/05/2019 06:18

Honestly, I think that you need to separate out academic achievement and your daughter's happiness, for the time being, and concentrate on only what makes her happy.
She needs time to develop her social skills and feel confident again. If that means staying at a slightly failing school where she will be top of the food chain, a big fish in a small pond, and where she knows staff and other pupils from day one, honestly, I would go with that.
Your daughter has her whole life in front of her. She can afford to make a few mistakes and take a few detours.
Stop thinking about the numbers and just talk to her about what she wants. Take her to an open day at the local college, so that she can see what her options are, and then let her make her own mind up. Even if it is the wrong decision, in the grand scheme of things, it won't matter

Thatdilemma · 02/05/2019 06:44

'a big fish in a small pond, and where she knows staff and other pupils from day one'

I think only a small percentage stay. It has a very small retention. It's something Ofsted commented on.
She's likely to be with 90% new people including possibly a large group of year 11 from the school which closes in July. She would know the staff though.

'Be the parent who is always on the phone.'

As an Sen Mum who's child was constantly really really melting down at home I was in contact daily.
When the grade which was honest went from a predicted 5 to a 2 I was in contact right away wanting to know why and how to help.

'She is ultimately working for herself, not the teacher - does she understand that? '

We've had a lot of discussions about that. I don't think she does but we've all tried to explain.
I've even said to her if I hates Maths as much as she does I would be putting 200% effort in so I didn't have to do it again!

'Has she looked at other places and wants to stay if so let her decide.'

We have. She loved the college, loved the setup , loved that she could dye her hair, loved that it was closer (free bus pass too) and she would be home quicker. Loved the equipment.
But she loves her Senco more.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 02/05/2019 06:53

I think by forcing her to change against her will you will face a huge amount of problems.

If she does what she wishes, then you may face problems, but it is not a given.

If you force her to leave and go someplace else. That she does not wish to go to ultimately then she will kick back. That is a given.

As much as your desire is likely the right one, it's only the right one if she also thinks so. If she does not, then it's not. Because you can lead a horse to water, but you simply can't make it drink.

stucknoue · 02/05/2019 07:14

If she doesn't achieve 4 in maths or English she has to retake alongside any other course, is she aware of this if she hates the maths teacher. But it's not too late anyway - bbc bitesize, or revision guides are good at bumping up grades if she's willing to work solidly for the next few weeks prioritising early exams

Phineyj · 02/05/2019 07:23

Her reaction to the college sounds very positive. It is risky to stay for one member of staff, who could leave (especially if the school is in some turmoil). Can you meet the college SENCO? I taught a student a little like your daughter once and she only really started to flourish in the workplace. But for that you need your English and Maths passes!

ExpletiveDelighted · 02/05/2019 07:35

A few things about the BTECs. By this stage in year 11 the school should pretty well know what grade she has achieved. A level 2 pass is equivalent to a single GCSE at grade 4/5. If she has achieved a level 1 it is a very big step up to level 3 especially if you are retaking maths and English at the same time. A BTEC level 2 at college is different, in that you study one subject full time for a year rather than alongside many other subjects in yr10/11 so more modules. I do think it is a valid concern that if she did level 2 at college it would be repeating work she's done already. I think you need to talk to the subject teacher / curriculum manager at college about this aspect. Also talk to the school about the possibility of an extra year there doing maths/English/a different L1/2 BTEC (eg business studies) before moving to L3 in her chosen subject at either school or college. We are having similar discussions for DS but his school keep stressing that the ultimate decision should be his.

PandorasWhiskers · 02/05/2019 07:37

She needs to make an informed choice for herself. Her grades ultimately won’t matter as she will be on either the L2 or L3 course and likely resitting at least Maths at whichever place she chooses. But it is her attitude to her course that matters - she needs to be motivated to work for herself without the feeling that it is “what mum wanted me to do” which so many PP have already said. Her grades at L3 will matter more if she can work through this difficult time.

What I would advise though is that you agree that if she makes the choice then if certain milestones are met or not met then you (as a team) get to review that choice early on so it doesn’t drift on.

averythinline · 02/05/2019 07:45

Could she not go to college later if school fucks up round here they will take to 19 and even longer if EHCP....I completely see why you think college will be better but I woudl go with her lead for now and as she may well change her mind once shes through the process

I would go with what she wants now and reduce the stress about it but realise that education is life long thing and probably going to college a year later if necessary is not much of a problem....

Thatdilemma · 02/05/2019 07:46

'is she aware of this if she hates the maths teacher'

She is. She is sure she won't get her again as the teacher doesn't teach sixth form.
Nope the teacher doesn't teach A levels and will quite possibly teach resits.
They REALLY don't get on. As a result DD pushes against the teacher every step of the way.

OP posts:
PandorasWhiskers · 02/05/2019 07:46

Saying that she could be testing that she is going to be allowed to make the choice and you would have other ways of influencing her choice without disenfranchising her and taking that choice away.

My ds got into a selective sixth form but wasn’t sure if he wanted to go to the local college. I stressed it was his choice and how much I thought it would be great if he stayed at home and all the benefits of seeing him every night so he could focus on his work. I also pointed out the opportunities and independence of the selective school ‘just for balance’ so he went to the selective school which is what I’d hoped.

Thatdilemma · 02/05/2019 07:58

ExpletiveDelighted thanks. We have had some confusion with college and the Btec. I asked college if she got a level 1/2 Btec but her grades were crap if the Btec could boost her onto the Btec at the next level at college if she resits maths and English alongside.
College said that the Btec schools did aren't proper so no.
DD is at a specialist health school which limits the remaining subjects and is doing a Btec tech award level 1/2. I think she is looking at a Level 1 distinction or a level 2 pass depending on her last exam.

'Can you meet the college SENCO? '
Yes we have. The whole team was great including the support they can offer.

'Could she not go to college later if school fucks up '

Yes although I'm worried about reapplying when she has already accepted a place which she is now obviously going to turn down.
I'm also concerned about her motivation if she has to redo part of it again.

OP posts: