Thank goodness they finally see sense!

[Prettyvase]

www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/01/caster-semenya-loses-landmark-legal-case-iaaf-athletics

Semenya is a woman she was born a woman and should be left to compete as a woman.

This^

You're so busy being anti-trans you forget about those for whom gender isn't a 'choice'

She wasn't born a woman. She was born intersex. As ^pp said, she has internal testes, which makes her more male than female.

I wonder if Fatima Whitbread, who looks very masculine faced this criticism? Or do we reserve it for african woman?
And she does not live as a man, she was raised a woman, as for her attire on her wedding day it is no concern to you

It's not a question of looks or of race. It's about testosterone - a chemical responsible for speed, strength and power, the levels of which are not the norm for anyone categorising themselves as female.

So, caster who was born female is forced to take drugs to lessen her natural talents; and yet someone born male, developed male, is allowed to decide to switch as an adult to female and complete. Weird

I agree. I think it would be better to consider the presence of 2 X chromosomes to determine eligibility for women's events. That would also resolve the issue of transwomen competing in women's events.

I see no difference between having naturally high testosterone and having any other inherent physical attribute that gives an advantage in a sport.

This is all about being testosterone fuelled.

They should have sorted this out years ago as Sharron Davis says.

It's a shame they have only made a stand now. Better late than never.

The comments about height are utterly disingenuous. It's not the same thing, because we don't assign athletes to a competitive category by height whereas we do with sex. I don't really know enough about the specifics and the science to know if the decision was the correct one in that respect, but I recognise an invalid comparison when I see it.

My understanding is that this ruling was relevant to those with 46,XY DSD
ie Caster is genetically male, born with sex disorder meaning she was brought up as a girl...

The ruling said women with XX chromosomes will not be subjected to testosterone limits.

You're so busy being anti-trans you forget about those for whom gender isn't a 'choice'

You're so busy being woke you forget about facts.

For a start, CS isn't trans, she is intersex.

Yes, the lowering of testosterone levels may (hopefully) have implications of TW competing in women's sport, but this ruling is about XY intersex individuals with DSD, not trans people and has nothing to do with 'gender'.

From what I have read, CS has internal testes and XY (not XX) chromosomes so was not born female, but was believed to be female at birth due to the lack of external male genitalia. This should have been identified during puberty but was not.

I have every sympathy for her and the amount of effort she has put in training for her sport, however allowing her to compete against women (XX with normal female levels of testosterone) is unfair. This is the right decision to maintain the integrity of women's sport.

Again Fatima Whitbread
Any idea how she got that jaw line?
Was she put under this scrutiny?
Seems odd she was feted as a hero but when a woman from a 3rd world country beats all comers she has to prove herself

It is not clear if CS us generically male or female. For me, that should be the demarcation. As medical provision around the world improves, there will be fewer and fewer cases of a person growing up not knowing that they their common markers of sex are not textbook and genetic testing is indicated.

If CS is indeed genetically male and did not find that out until adulthood, then I gave great sympathy for her. I’m not sure what would be fair in that situation. If she is genetically female, then she should be allowed to compete with other women with her natural body without modification.

So, testosterone is a red herring here. The ruling makes it clear that Semenya is genetically male. That should be the starting point. Absence of a penis does not make you a woman.

Stop mentioning Fatima Whitbread! Your comments are personally abusive and without justification.

The IAAF say that the reduction in testosterone can be achieved by taking normal oral contraceptives. Millions of women take them, so it shouldn't be too onerous for someone with DSD.

I think we could go right back to the 1930s when doubts began as provided by that BBC link.

And the obvious loopholes that the Eastern bloc countries took advantage of in drugging routinely.

No wonder it has been such a nightmare and unfair playing field for women for so long (excuse the pun).

Would Fatima Whitbread not have gone through sex verification testing anyway?

@twitterqueen but mentioning how Semenya dressed at her wedding was not personal? Double standards?

Yes I think Whitbread did go through sex verification, but did that include a testosterone test? Or a test for chromosones ? I don't know?

@Buster72 it’s not about what Caster wore at her/his wedding! In African culture it’s more than that.. Caster paid lobolo for his bride. A traditional dowry payment made by a prospective husband. Caster’s wife has also said MANY times that she is heterosexual and definitely NOT gay!! In her eyes Caster is a man.

Fatima Whitbread was married and has children. Natural children.

All athletes have to have their sex/gender verified - the only person who never had the test was Princess Anne (and subsequently probably Zara, but I cant confirm that)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_verification_in_sports

Buster you are making comments and drawing conclusions about someone's appearance. This is both abusive and offensive.

It's not about looks - as I have said before - it is about Caster's genes, the fact that she has a disorder of sexual differentiation (DSD). She has internal testes and an exceptionally high level of testosterone.

Seems odd she was feted as a hero

I suggest you go and read about Whitbread's life.

I heard an interview on R4 today where the interviewee (intersex) stated that it was easier when babies are born intersex to "make a hole than a pole".
So a child who is born without obvious genital demarcations is seen by the medical establishment as female because it's easier.
Just because "it's easier to make a hole than a pole" does not make someone female.