Time taken in lieu

[Rollypoly100]

I work in the NHS. We have a crisis at work where amongst our admin team some have been starting work early and leaving late to accrue TOIL. It seems no one has authorised this. They add up all their accrued time and then take the odd Friday and Monday off. Their manager is reluctant to police this and doesn't want to get involved (incompetent) and it is creating huge resentment.
AIBU to think this is unfair on others who do their work in the allotted time.

If their manager is happy with the situation it doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks. When I worked in the NHS that was the entire point of flex time.

If there is more work than can be done in the allotted time, what else do you suggest they do?

How does this cause an issue/crisis if the same amount of work is done? If it's unsustainable because too much time is being taken off or it's hard to book annual leave then the only thing you can do is speak to the manager. Sounds like they need a flexible working arrangement rather than continuous toil.

Seems kind of unfair that their work is covered when they aren't in yet they are unavailable to help rest of team.

Within council flex can only be accrued If there is work to be done (so not coming in for an extra 30 mins to drink tea)

We can only accrue a maximum of one day a month. So flex should not be accrued to purposely get an extra day a month, we have to prove the extra work done.

Effectively you are doing the work required but just doing longer days to be able to have a whole day off.

However it should be at manager discretion and the flex day only taken if viable for work loads.

What does your policy say op?

I'm confused, what direct impact does it have on you? Is it a customer facing role? Does more work build up in the day?

They're not going to be able to help others if they've already got more work than they can handle.

Are you wanting to build up TOIL? Have you asked if you can do some work with their team?

Apparently it is not company policy. They are not being asked to start early or work late, it does not appear to be authorised. One colleague gets in one hour early every day in order to print off one form. By getting in early every day she then leaves five hours early at the end of the week. Is this fair to others?

In my work (publishing) we worked until the job was done. The only time we were allowed time off in lieu was if we had to work overnight or at the weekend above our normal days. We were unionised too. My stepson works for the NHS. He likes to watch cricket so got his boss to agree at 6am-3pm day when it was played in Australia so he could watch in the afternoon. It was agreed formally and no one minded.
If the time in lieu is accepted by supervisor what’s the problem? But I don’t think working an extra half hour here and there for no real reason should count. They should negotiate say four days at longer hours.

If there’s a flex time policy, it makes no odds whether it’s fair or not. How do you know what she’s doing in the first hour? Your complaint seems motivated by envy, OP.

In my council (workplace) extra hours have to be put on a rota in advance of 48 hours, where additional staffing is required. You can't just stay for an extra 30 mins then take it off the next day. Extra hours have to be signed off by manager for pay or in lieu

I used to work somewhere like this - public sector.

The offices were full at 7.30am when the phones were quiet, and like a ghost town come 3.30pm with the few remaining staff (on newer contracts that didn't allow flexitime) having to pick up the bulk of the calls, leaving many unanswered.

@Rollypoly100 but how is it unfair if she is working the same hours, how does leaving 5 hours early impact on you? She is working her contracted hours so her workload is the same? I could understand if this causes pressure on the day she leaves early because it's customer facing etc, but if not I don't understand what it is that is unfair? If you want the same you just apply for a flexible working arrangement, everyone has the right to.

@OllyBJolly and that's a good example of when it isn't fair and needs to be managed more tightly. I work flexi but in a customer facing role so I have to prioritise the service, I can't just leave at 4pm willynilly, I assess what staff I have in.

There is no flex time policy. My point is surely you can't stay for an extra half an hour just to leave early the next day. There's no envy at all but it has to be consistent, either everyone can do it or no one. That's my point.

@OllyBJolly

That's when you need to cater for Core hours alongside Flexi time to prevent people ripping the arse out of it.

@Rollypoly100

So there's no envy at all, you just don't like someone else being able to do it?

I work in the NHS albeit in a patient facing role, our shifts are fixed (except when the service needs us to start early/finish late) then we acquire TOIL, our service state that TOIL should be used as soon as possibly and preferably within the week that it was accrued. We also have to call our manager and ask for our TOIL to be recorded as we accrue/use it as the system before was being abused.

@Rollypoly100 yes you can! And the NHS does ave a flexible working policy, you won't be privy to individual arrangements. Why aren't you comprehending this? She is doing the SAME AMOUNT OF WORK, just at different times, you can do it too if you want! Long gone are the days of 9-5!!! Is this your first job?

The OP has said there's no system, no flexi-time, just an incompetent manager who allows people to do whatever hours they want, leaving a small number to hold the fort.

This isn't about flexitime though is it? It is about people rocking up 30-60 minutes before their shift starts then taking the time back when it suits them, how can a service operate if they don't know what staffing they have on at any given time?

I did a very short contact role for a small semi-rural NHS office. I saw 6 out of 10 staff (at the end of the day) close up theirs computer, walk out, get into their cars, sort out handbag, phone etc, drive up to the exit, pull over, jump out of the cars to clock out. I was only there for two weeks but saw it every day. If I had been there perm or longer I would uk have said something to HR. Also took a short contact in a council and saw similar things.

I think in your case OP have a word to HR to see how TOIL works across the board. Why is it not open to everyone?

@HollowTalk that's what she hasn't clarified, whether there's a fort that needs holding or not, as I've said multiple times if it does directly impact on her own work then yes this needs addressing, but she hasn't said it has after being asked multiple times, just keeps saying it's unfair people leave early.

All my jobs in the NHS had TOIL arrangements but not all allowed flexitime. If the role needs to be covered staff can be required to work, TOIL and flexi are not meant to be used so often they effectively change your working hours. If this is how someone wants to work they should be asking to change their set hours. However, unless it's impacting on your work (or others) I don't think you should do anything. If it is impacting on you raise it in your 1:1 meeting and make sure the impact is noted. Good luck.

Does it not depend if that tine is spent working or just there for the sake of being seen to be there, or if the toil taken impacts on efficiency of the department. It is up to the manager to enforce the policy and not allow him/her or the organisation to be taken advantage of.