To think this is fine to talk about in a work email

[SandAndSeals]

I’ve NC as this is potentially outing.

An awareness email went out to colleagues about the menopause. Is the email, it lists the symptoms inc. hot flushes, low mood etc and also ‘vaginal dryness and reduced sex drive’.

My colleague has put a complaint email in about it as they don’t think it’s appropriate to mention vaginal dryness is a workplace email. However I disagree. It’s a common symptom and should be listed in an awareness article. You would take out ‘difficulty holding an erection’ when discussing prostate cancer, for example.

The Health team send out other emails about out conditions and illnesses depending on what’s being asked for. I’m in the Women’s Network so I know that menopause info has been asked for.

What do you think? AIBU or is she?

Well my learning point from this is that vaginal dryness is not just about sex. I think that symptom needs to be phrased differently for any workplace implications and indeed implications outside the bedroom, to be made apparent e.g. 'vaginal soreness and chafing'.

*Why do you think that ‘vaginal dryness’ should be removed from the symptom list when it is a symptom that women face? Why is it different from night sweats or irritability?

Vaginal dryness = irrelevant to work, unless you're a sex worker

Night sweats = possibly relevant to work, if you struggle to sleep and may be tired the next day

Irritability = relevant to work, a bit of understanding / tolerance from colleagues would be appropriate

cubes puts it perfectly

Your complaining colleague needs to grow up. As do some posters here.

I don't think the email is saying 'please make allowances for vaginal dryness'; it just appears in a list of several symptoms.

I agree with S1naidSucks, basically.

On that basis then, emails should be sent detailing how you will become slower physically, have impaired cognitive function and lose control of your bowels and bladder as you get older. Sure, why not? The more we can talk openly about ALL health/well-being issues, the better-placed managers and colleagues are to manage them and understand them.

Also, as other people have mentioned, vaginal dryness isn’t just about sex.

Vaginal dryness can cause pain and discomfort even just sitting or standing.

So yes, it could affect a woman at work. Perhaps the lesson learned from this is for awareness raising sessions or emails to spell that out a bit more, eg to say that the menopause can cause a lot of pain or discomfort even whilst sitting or standing. I don’t think the lesson here though is to rubbish the idea of sharing a symptom that can and does impact women at work, just because an individual can’t make the connection or do a simple Google to understand how it is relevant.

It’s not irrelevant to work ‘unless you a sex worker’. I’ve had vaginal dryness (not due to the menopause) and it HAS caused discomfort at work. It can feel sore, it chafes. It can be difficult to get comfortable. It is a potential problem at work.

Vaginal dryness = irrelevant to work, unless you're a sex worker

Nope - it isn’t just about lack of lubrications during sex it us reduced all the time potentially leading to pain, bleeding, sores, chaffing, small cuts etc - all of which impact quality of life/life. That so many posters don’t seem able to grasp that is evidence of the generally cluelessness about menopause.

Are you involved in drafting the emails OP?

Why don’t the emails just have links to the intranet where all the info can be detailed for
Those that are interested in reading them. The menopause policy could be posted on the intranet and referred to as and when and by whom.

Don’t you have an intranet?

No, but I am very vocal in the Women’s Network and my colleague has irked me a bit.

I do link it with the Health team too which is why I’m quite on the ball with they write.

I actually agree with your colleague on this one, more so because whilst managers may need to be more understanding of symptoms, that's probably not one they'll need to know about or consider. Other symptoms yes but maybe not that. I'm guessing it may be embarrassing for those who are menopausal. It's a bit of an unusual situation really.

I feel that middle aged women are discriminated against enough at work without all their male colleagues being given the opportunity of thinking that if they are a bit "off" on any given day it is because sex was a bit painful for them last night, or indeed any sort of "wimmins problems"

It has always been a matter of pride to me that I have gone through 2 pregnancies and menopause without anyone even having to question my abilities and comittment because of my physical condition. Anyway, is there a "male ageing" policy to point out to staff that as they age men are more prone to ED and that Viagra might not work?

General communications talking about things like vaginal dryness seem far more likely to increase embarrassment and even workplace sex/age discrimination, than to lead to positive things such as good management and any helpful adjustments.

Sounds like the aims of the communication weren’t sufficiently clear or the content well thought through.

SandAndSeals I just referenced vaginal dryness in my example but to be fair I could have mentioned any of the other possible symptoms of the menopause, in the same way you could mention symptoms of any other health issue. I don't have a problem with discussing vaginal dryness at all and I'm not offended by the word vagina, nor penis, anus, ear canal or any other body part - although for some strange reason flexed tendons on the inside of people's wrists make me feel a bit peculiar!

1 in 16 people has diabetes. It can cause a myriad of issues, some of them as listed on the NHS website are:
loss of feeling and pain (nerve damage) – causing problems with sex
foot problems – like sores and infections
vision loss and blindness
miscarriage and stillbirth
problems with your kidneys
constipation or diarrhoea

Should workplaces be educating all their staff about the symptoms diabetic members of staff may be experiencing? Maybe that might make them feel uncomfortable as they may think colleagues will assume they have those symptoms now.

The Cancer Research website lists 63% of adults in the UK as being overweight or obese. The NHS lists the day to day problems of being obese as:

breathlessness
increased sweating
snoring
difficulty doing physical activity
often feeling very tired
joint and back pain
low confidence and self-esteem
feeling isolated

Given over half the workforce is likely to be overweight or obese, should emails be sent around about those symptoms?

I'm querying what is helpful to a workforce and why employers think they need to start sharing symptoms of health issues?

Yes, doubt you’d see general comms about prostate issues, for example!

I'm post menopausal and would have welcomed a bit of understanding when I was going through it. My hot flushes were such that I became overcome with the need to get out of any confined spaces, it made me very claustrophobic and i felt an overwhelming need to strip layers of clothing off - it's not just feeling a bit hot.

I didn't have particular problems with vaginal dryness, but am aware this is very unpleasant to deal with from friends who have had it, and it has been very distressing affected thier sex life, their daily comfort level and even in one case made her very worried about her marriage and relationship (and it isn't a simple as get some lube, - the gels/lubes for menopausal dryness etc often contain oestrogen, my friend had had a oestrogen fed breast cancer which makes such decisions and choices a little more complicated)

Why on earth would you censor a medical list of symptoms - presumably all the people at your workplace are adults and have heard of vaginas? I totally agree that listing all symptoms give people a sense of how the totality of menopause may affect someone's life and may require some understanding and allowance.

For everyone tittering that 'I don't need to know about Shirley's vaginal dryness tee hee hee' - possibly not -, but if you see a list of symptoms and realise that Shirley may be dealing with some or all of these, and that any or all of these may well affect her mood, her comfort level, her home life as well as her work life, may make her tired, may require her to use the toilet more often. to sometimes leave the room suddenly etc etc. Then perhaps 'women's issues' won't be dismissed so readily.

These are grown up issues and I would expect grown ups to be able to cope with lists of medical symptoms, learn from them if they are ignorant, absorb the information into their behaviour, show consideration to fellow workers and generally act like adults.

a Menopause policy was required and many managers (men in particular) are clueless of the symptoms and haven’t been showing any understanding.

Well apart from much else theres with good intent!

We oft hear on the board that men don't understand this and that re womens medic problems conditions and the like !.

Very strange email to send. I doubt the women's network asked for a random email with a list of symptoms to be sent. That would not be what they had in mind.
Prostate cancer is an illness. The menopause is not.
Your workplace have a strange approach.

It's a bit of an unusual situation really.

Well, we need to make it less so by making it OK to talk openly about menopause.

Loopy, the OP says that her workplace HAS previously had awareness emails and sessions re prostate cancer.

These are grown up issues and I would expect grown ups to be able to cope with lists of medical symptoms, learn from them if they are ignorant, absorb the information into their behaviour, show consideration to fellow workers and generally act like adults.

I really don't think it's censorship to keep the contents of work emails relevant to the workplace. I think the issue here is that the email writer has been lazy, they have put together a meaningless list of symptoms that don't actually help. What would have been better would be sending out the symptoms and an explanation of how this can be a specific workplace issue and how people can help.

HiggyHog Well done for you in having an easy menopause.
I am very much a get on with it person. But if you are sitting in a meeting when your face is bright red and sweat running down your face, then a bit harder to ignore. As is forgetting the names of people you have known for years. Or having to write lots of notes because you can no longer remember anything. Or having to operate daily on very little sleep because you wake up every morning at 2am on the dot and can not get back to sleep at 4.30am. etc etc.

I didn’t mean prostate cancer, I meant symptoms of ageing affecting men.

“everyone tittering that 'I don't need to know about Shirley's vaginal dryness tee hee hee”: it’s not posters “tittering”, it’ll be co-workers, with potential for any women who is or looks of a certain age to be embarrassed, at best.

Older women are already at disadvantage at work: this kind of communication is far more likely to worsen the situation than to be helpful.

And I do think complaining about this is snowflakey. Even if you think it is irrelevant to the workplace, just delete. Really no big deal.

symptoms of ageing affecting men That actually annoys me. I am coming through the menopause now, and am older. There is an enormous difference between menopausal symptoms and simply getting older. Menopausal symptoms can be mild or really really shit. Getting older while you are still young enough to be working, is not a big deal.