To not want to be a medical guinea pig whilst being treated for suspected sepsis, one day postpartum whilst very unwell

[Februaryblooms]

In hospital after being induced with DD who was born yesterday morning. DD has jaundice and is on a blue light in the crib but she's doing ok as per monitoring.

It was a quick labour that ended up with me having a second degree tear and stitches. I've been losing alot of clots, am weak and have been told I have some retained placental products.

I've had cannulas galore, constant blood tests etc and somewhere among that lot I've contracted an infection that they won't yet call sepsis but have strongly hinted toward that being what it is and said they are screening and treating me for it "just in case"

I'm currently laid up having a blood transfusion after rushing through two IV doses of antibiotics, multiple bags of fluid, and am told I may need to go to theatre to remove the retained products if they don't expel themselves/If the antibiotics don't work soon. I'm incredibly poorly, sweating, have poor (high heart rate, blood pressure, temperature) and can't leave my bed or tend to my newborn, fortunately my partner is here and is being brilliant.

I'm positively terrified to be honest and have never felt so vulnerable in my life after hearing the word "Sepsis"

My AIBU is:

AIBU to not want my treatment process used to teach the student midwives/staff. Every procedure and obs I have is being undertaken by the student staff over seen and walked through by senior staff who are all absolutely lovely but it's making me feel like a guinea pig laying here helpless, whilst my condition is being used to train the students.

I haven't said anything, I don't know if I have any right to. I'm being treated regardless aren't I and can't afford to go private.

Am I being ridiculous and over reacting because of my current state? How would you feel? Is this the norm?

Nobody has asked whether I mind so I assume I don't have a choice.

I'm not bashing the NHS and I'm grateful I'm being looked after. I'm

You can say no and it is absolutely fine. Give yourself a break

What mascapone said. OP hope you get some sleep and that you also get to take as much control as you can of a very scary situation.

Good wishes to you and your baby hugs

YANBU. Just say no. They don’t sound like they are teaching appropriately anyway, because the senior doctor isn’t listening to you but is prioritising teaching.

Oh and this person:

And yet with all this going on....you are on Mumsnet!

Please just fuck off. Did it make you feel good to type that?

You poor thing. How terrifying.
Of course you can refuse students. You should always be asked.

I'm well aware they need to learn but all students know that sometimes they'll be asked to step aside. It's part of their training.

I hope it's not sepsis. I'm also hoping that being aware enough to Mumsnet means you've been caught in time . But keep at it to keep you going! Find yourself a good CF thread.

Congratulations on your baby.

Don't feel bad about saying no if you're not comfortable with being treated by loads of students while you're feeling vulnerable.

One of the important lessons they need to learn is also about getting informed consent! And being patient-centred and having empathy.

You have a choice, just make it known you don’t wish to have students observe, monitor you etc.

Argh just wrote you a massive post and it's disappeared. I wanted to say - I've been there (readmitted with sepsis, staph aureus infection a week after having DS).

The fever/chills cycle was horrible. It's really easy to say 'they need to train, of course I'd let them do it' even you're well but when you feel that rubbish it's a completely different thing. Do whatever you need to do - be that declining students completely or asking for a day off from them.

I hope you're feeling better soon, is baby in with you?

I'm fucking scared, bed bound, and don't know what's going on with my body.

And that is totally understandable you poor soul. However if it is/might be/suspected Septic which of course isn't much fun you will be under treatment for it so that's a good thing. What isnt good is to be at home thinking you've just got something wrong which might be the dreaded S but at least here you are being treated for it so good thus far.

And of course you feel as if you've run the marathon ten times over! do ask if the students can be laid off till you feel a bit better. As to that they have to learn and real life cases at that, sorry of that sounds un personal, but it is the way it has to be done as said all the senior staff had to learn too, and thank you for being brave thus far.

and

Hope you can enjoy the little 'un gets well as soon as:)

Bless her and you:)

honestly if your well enough to write such a long post on mums net, it is unlikely you have sepsis

Have you ever had sepsis? Because if you haven't then you haven't got a clue what you are talking about and comments like the one above only serve to make you look foolish.

When I had sepsis after giving birth to DC4 I felt rough so had a say on the sofa. I watched a box set on the TV while nursing DD and one of the characters had sepsis/childbed fever. I told DH "that's what I've got" and we laughed. He went out to register DD's birth, I stayed home and looked after her. I felt progressively worse as the day went on. MW and HV both did a home visit. Told them both I didn't feel well. Both missed the signs. Mid-afternoon I started vomiting, it got worse and worse until 2am when I was in an ambulance and on my way to hospital.

Sepsis is progressive and early treatment is best, OP is in hospital and receiving treatment so I'm guessing she is at the stage where she feels unwell but early treatment has meant she hasn't progressed to the point of unconsciousness (or has improved from that point) and therefore can use her phone for messaging/posting on MN.

OP, my deposits was also caused by retained products. I had fluids, antiemetics, two different antibiotics, and pain relief all on IV. They did discuss taking me to theatre to remove the retained products but decided to watch and wait first because the infection risk from that surgery was too great when I was already fighting an overwhelming infection. I responded well to the antibiotics so they left the products alone to either be reabsorbed or pass on their own.

I still felt really rough for ages afterwards. I was on Cefalexin and Metronidazole, both made me feel ill and completely killed my appetite to the point that I had to force myself to even drink as I had no feelings of thirst or hunger. Once they switch you over to oral antibiotics, drinking a full glass of water when taking them helps and you can ask for anti-emetics to take alongside them (e.g., cyclizine).

When the retained products did come away, they came away in spectacular fashion with a secondary PPH. I thought I'd wet myself, looked down and it was blood. No one warned me that this might happen and the nurse on the ward when I arrived back (yet again) said they often "come away with a good gush"

It took a good few months for me to feel myself again, mainly tiredness but also some degree of anxiety. The first time I got ill a few months afterwards I had chills and had a panic attack that the sepsis had come back to finish me off. I also can't deal with vomiting after nine months of HG and 12hrs of projectile vomiting bile and have a diagnosis of emetephobia which I'm on a waiting list for therapy to treat.

YANBU at all to ask that you are not treated by students, a big part of your treatment and recovery is that you feel safe and comfortable so if that will help them definitely speak up or ask your partner to advocate on your behalf.

Do you mean actual students or do you mean FY1s/interns? Sorry for sounding pedantic but I'm only asking because an FY1 might say they are new and need supervision but they aren't students anymore, they are doctors so they won't ask your permission for an FY1 to treat you because they are classed as a member of the team, not a student. The more confident ones will be treating you without supervision and you wouldn't even know they were an FY1 unless you specifically asked or read their badge. If it's actual students (ie, still studying at University and haven't got their medical degree yet) then you absolutely should be asked before they do anything with you.

I'm so sorry this has all happened OP, you must be feeling so down already. And now you've got a bunch of posters on here telling you that you don't have sepsis and even if you did it's not a big deal

If you don't like anything that a doctor or nurse is doing at any point then you most definitely can speak up! If you're feeling really ill then maybe it's better to speak to your DH and get him to do it, since he'll have more energy to question things and argue. Don't suffer in silence. Get DH to fight your corner

fortunately my partner is here and is being brilliant.

Very pleased to hear that, makes a welcome change from what we usaully read on these boards!

You have every right to decline treatment from students and your treatment should not be negatively impacted.

Students, be they student nurses, medical students or otherwise should be introduced as such, and either they or their supervisor should ask if it is okay for them to attend or take part in your treatment. You are allowed to say “no”.

Ask you DP to talk to a midwife and say whilst you’ve been happy with student care up until this point, you feel you’ve been very accommodating but you’re exhausted and would prefer not to have students treat you going forward.

Congratulations on your baby and all the very best for a speedy recovery.

The “positive iPhone signal so you must be well” brigade are idiots. HTH.

I'm nit bothered by them - except for the once when an orthopaedic consultant showed off to one by pinging part of my rotator cuff post dislocation. I yelped in pain, he smirked. I went home and put in a complaint. A rheumatologist took over my care, said its lucky it's only added three months onto the healing process and he'd been in a -'robust chat about not impressing students'. I was always asked about having them even in the room after that.

But iain the other med student got a helping hand from me - he was sent into the room alone to find out what was wrong and he missed my fairly discreet breech presentation due to my laying down. I sat up and pointing to the hard shaped lump that appeared unde| my right rib.

He hopefully remembered that breech babies are good at hiding, as he looked so pleased to be told 'well done'.

But I don't really mind. In other circumstances, I might tell them not Aby more students, please. It's up to you.

You poor thing. I had a traumatic birth and lost the plot completely when a perfectly nice, fully trained doctor couldn't get a line in - sometimes you just reach your limit, and that limit has to be respected. Someone else can be the teaching case from now on, you've done your bit.

Congratulations on your baby x

sometimes you just reach your limit, and that limit has to be respected

Absolutely.

You’ve been generous enough to let them observe your treatment so far, but even if you hadn’t its ok to say no to students.

I think some posters have forgotten how exhausting and scary those first few days after labour can be, and that’s without having to deal with treatment for sepsis. I felt really vulnerable while I was being treated, and would have reacted the same way you if students were trotted in without my permission.

Yanbu. I had sepsis when my youngest was born and I remember the overwhelming feeling of wanting to be left alone to sleep.

Hope you are feeling a bit better this morning February.

Yes sepsis is a very scary term and there have been some horror stories about it in the media. ...usually because it has been missed. However in your case they have identified the risk and are giving treatment thankfully.

Keep posting if it helps distract you .

Focus on getting home with your gorgeous new baby.

Hope you’ve had a chance to explain how you’re feeling to the staff.
There is nothing worse than being terrified ill and feeling like an exhibition in a museum. I’ve been in this situation when I was pregnant and needed surgery at 22wks. It was exhausting mentally and physically.
Congratulations on your little one, sending you heaps of virtual hugs and good wishes for a speedy recovery.
And to the OP isn’t that ill brigade a HUGE FUCK OFF!!!

“sometimes you just reach your limit, and that limit has to be respected”

Yup, this.
Please remember this lovely.
You’ve done your bit.

Besides, I don’t think your problem IS the students, it’s the ruddy senior staff prioritising teaching above patient care. And I wouldn’t be afraid of making this point, or getting someone else to make this point on your behalf.

I do hope you are feeling a tiny bit better

Hi all, thanks for the replies

I didn't get around to saying anything, I had a sudden episode of hyperventilating and went into panic mode. I was shivering with cold then burning up and my whole body was shaking uncontrollably. I could have been treat by a clown and not cared in that moment, it was quite scary.

More antibiotics were flushed through my IV line and I was given another bag of fluid, then tablets for my haemoglobin/iron.

Nothing to update on the surgery front as it's looking like I may not need to go to theatre, the bleeding is slowing down and they're happy with my response to the antibiotics up until now.

My heart rate has got slightly better and is now on the higher end of normal so that's positive.

I feel like I've turned a corner as of 4-5 this morning, managed to drink some liquid and drag myself to the bathroom. I no longer have that feeling of impending doom! Hoping things continue getting better and I don't decline again.

One thing that is driving me bonkers is the doctors are refusing to tell me whether it's sepsis or not. I've had three loads of bloods done since everything began and every time I ask somebody I'm told that nobody has checked the results, which I struggle to believe as they've been extremely on the ball and prompt in monitoring and treating me. Why are they so reluctant to confirm or deny sepsis? Is it for my own good? I can see here that I'm not the only one who's had this experience, with the hospital not wanting to tell the patient what it actually is.

I'm so grateful that they've caught this and treat me so quickly, I can't thank them enough for getting me from where I was at yesterday to where I appear to be heading today, i just feel as though I have a right to know if it is that iyswim?

If it is then thank god I was already in the hospital when symptoms began as they were able to begin treating straight away which is fantastic, so I don't think I'd freak out at this point if they were to tell me it wasn't good news.. as I feel as though I'm coming through the worst of it if that makes sense.

When were the bloods taken because the test for sepsis is a blood culture. So it needs to culture in the lab which can take 48 hours.

It's normal to treat as positive for sepsis while waiting for the culture results.

I've had multiple rounds of bloods taken since around 7:00am yesterday morning.

That's interesting to know Nico, thank you. I briefly overheard one of the doctors mention 'cultures' when discussing me with a colleague earlier but didn't catch exactly what it was they were saying. I was half asleep at the time.

You have every right to refuse but I wouldn’t reccomend it. Care in NHS hospitals can be very poor. They tend to offer a higher standard of care ofyour are being used to teach. They are more likely to perform tests that they wouldn’t otherwise bother with and the like. The inexperienced staff also tend to be far far nicer and more attentive. I have been in nhs hostials twice (to give birth, no other option within driving distance) and would always jump at the chance of student staff.