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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To get DNR revoked

111 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:27

Thats it really.

How can i do this?

OP posts:
tealandteal · 28/04/2019 15:29

Who is it for OP?

Shouldbedoing · 28/04/2019 15:30

Don't you ask to discuss this with the consultant/lead clinician? If it's for yourself make your wishes known immediately to the most senior nurse on duty

tealandteal · 28/04/2019 15:33

Sorry pressed send too soon. Sorry to hear you are in a situation where you are having to think about things like DNRs. Please be assured it can be revoked at any time. Please speak with your team of health care professionals and you can destroy the form and request any electronic copies of the form are destroyed. If it is not for you I think it would depend on who has POA.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:34

My mum teal. Its a long story but my mum is 83 with lifelong complex health issues. Something has happened to make me feel that the dnr is influencing clinical decision making and it is not in my mums best interest.

Of course i have to discuss this with my mother. It just isnt whar i thought it was.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 28/04/2019 15:34

Yes it is for you or someone else and do you have POA and are they deemed not to be competent enough to make their own decisions

Quartz2208 · 28/04/2019 15:35

Then if it is for your mother - yes she can but only if she wants to

What did you think it was?

Floralnomad · 28/04/2019 15:36

I’m sorry to say it’s unlikely to happen IME .

NoBaggyPants · 28/04/2019 15:36

Who has put the DNR in place, is it the individual or a clinician? Does the individual have capacity?

If the decision has been made by a doctor, it can't necessarily be revoked. But that decision should be made with the input of the patient and their family if appropriate.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:36

Thank you - i dont have POA and i need it so i think we need a solicitor ?

If my mum still wants the dnr thats her choice

OP posts:
SometimesIGetNervous · 28/04/2019 15:38

Why do you think the DNR is inappropriate? I remember your other thread.

Aquamarine1029 · 28/04/2019 15:38

Does your mum agree with the dnr? Given her health issues, is living longer in her best interests? You need to speak to your mother and let her be the one to decide.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:39

Quartz - i thought it was exactly what it says. But it seems to be a do not treat if that makes sense. At least that is what ive experienced this week. It would take me ages to explain.

OP posts:
OhTheTiles · 28/04/2019 15:39

Maybe talk to the doctors about what it actually means as there’s usually confusion.

DNR just means if sadly her heart did stop they wouldn’t do CPR to try and restart it/take her to ITU on a ventilator etc. As at that age it is very unlikely to be successful.

But they still do everything up to that point. So antibiotics/fluids/oxygen scans etc.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:40

Aqua -absolutely agree and i will. With help then yes there is quality of life. Without it not so much.

OP posts:
ShiveringCoyote · 28/04/2019 15:41

DNRs are really only in effect at the imminent end of life in my exeperience (been there for four people under DNR). If you or your mum feel your mum is not receiving adequate healthcare that is different.

Prequelle · 28/04/2019 15:41

You can yes.

I say this with kindness though as I know your mother's history, it will not do her any good. It won't extend her life. She will have every other treatment available to her in the meantime, she just won't be for resuscitation.

She has an aortic aneurysm and I know you know this but it means this can go at any time and there will be nothing anyone can do. Pumping on her chest, breaking her ribs, stabbing needles into her, will be futile. It will just be traumatic for all involved, especially you if you have to witness it.

Sometimes it is taken out of your hands anyway and you won't have a choice. The resus council state that clinicians can make the decision not to do advanced life support if it is futile, and in your mother's situation it would be.

I know you're going through such a hard time right now and I know you must be terrified of losing her. Here with you and thinking of you Flowers

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:42

Ohthetiles that is how i understood it but it seems to have influenced decision making.

I absolutely dont want her recussed in those circs but i want her treated where feasible and safe.

OP posts:
WhoAteMyNuts · 28/04/2019 15:43

If you don't have POA then does your mum still have capacity. If she does then why don't you just ask her if the doctors have discussed it with her.

If my mum still wants the dnr thats her choice I would have thought you would have asked her first. My mum had a DNR and she was perfectly happy with that.

NoBaggyPants · 28/04/2019 15:44

DNR is definitely not a do not treat, though the same reasoning behind the DNR may also apply to a decision to offer palliative care only.

Ultimately the decision is the doctor's. You can ask for a second opinion but they don't have to offer one, I'd be surprised if they didn't agree to one though.

bridgetreilly · 28/04/2019 15:44

If there is other care you thinking she should be getting but isn't, then you definitely need to speak up about it, OP. The DNR shouldn't have any impact on that. I'm really sorry you're in that situation, though.

itsboiledeggsagain · 28/04/2019 15:44

We made a dnr for my father and he did get a lot better and canceled it. Doctors just rewrote a document iirc

SometimesIGetNervous · 28/04/2019 15:46

She has an aortic aneurysm and I know you know this but it means this can go at any time and there will be nothing anyone can do. Pumping on her chest, breaking her ribs, stabbing needles into her, will be futile. It will just be traumatic for all involved, especially you if you have to witness it.

This. CPR is traumatic. And it doesn’t always bring the person back to the person they used to be. Is not resuscitating really the best thing for your DM? Why don’t you want it? Often the best thing is to make people comfortable and make sure if they are going to die it’s in the best place and in the most comfortable way with the best support. Ideally.

Bookworm4 · 28/04/2019 15:46

If the DnR is your mums choice you have to respect that, it's a very hard thing for you to face and want to have your mum as long as possible but please speak to her and respect her wishes.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/04/2019 15:47

Prequelle i totally agree with what you are telling me but i am worried it is infuencind decision reguarding her treatment options. I agreed and still do that we should only be looking at palliative care for the aneurysm but at the moment it seems to mean no care and im.concerned the DNR is the reason.

Thankyou for your input on bith threads it is very much appreciated.

My mum.has just phoned and has nade a dessert for dinner today - you couldn't make it up 😜

OP posts:
ShiveringCoyote · 28/04/2019 15:47

I say this kindly and having watched both my parents pass, sometimes prolonging life is not the thing to do. Sometimes the best thing is to let people die with as little pain and interference as possible. Flowers