Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

Tbh, I always go with my gut feeling now. After being ‘had over’ in more ways than I’d like to remember I finally learnt to trust my gut instinct and if that’s what’s happening with you, I’d strongly advise you to follow your instinct

I don’t think she’s crazy, but I think she’s angry, and will continue to make your life difficult.
Sorry for the impending long, rangy post!

When we bought this house (first time buyers, but we had a lot of practical help from PIL who’ve bought lots of houses over the years) we had 3 viewings before making an offer.
The vendors did the showing, but in reality just let us walk about. They then talked our ear off for half an hour saying that they were advised the price, they expected less and are open to offers. They also said that we could keep any appliances we wanted, as they were moving to a small house, and strangely had 5 fridges?!

We offered £5,000 under the asking price, but that was based on other houses in the same area which were better kitted out, and sold for less than the AP very recently. They became very funny with us.
They said they would accept £3,000 under and not a penny less and that we couldn’t have anything in the house. That was fine with us as we didn’t want any of their things, but we were still a bit .

We should have left it there in hindsight because things became more and more difficult.

They complained the surveyors were in their way, and being intrusive by asking to go into the loft, and started to refuse to answer very simple questions and provide documentation.
DH stupidly gave them our phone numbers, and they PA texted us at odd times with little rants and then switching to being nice.
I had to ask the vendor to stop speaking to me towards the end, as she was being aggressive.

We did ask for a room measurement once via EA, as we needed to make sure our child’s crib would fit in the smaller room and we weren’t able to do so any other time as the room was full of their stuff, and they took three weeks to reply as they weren’t sure why we needed it at all.

One day they invited us to come over to see if we wanted to buy their oven, which we’d said we did like at the time of viewing, and they spent the whole time telling us how shit their lives were being made but our solicitor and we couldn’t see the oven as they were making dinner!

Honestly, those people were batshit, and it made my life miserable every day having to deal with them. The only reason we held on was because this is exactly where we wanted to be, sadly they knew that and used it to their advantage.
My advice is unless you love it pull out now.

You wonder why she’s annoyed? She’d had an offer from someone else and you bid higher; now you’ve cut your offer to what is probably below the other bidder. Unfortunately that’s the system in this Country.

My daughter and her partner are in the process of a house purchase. Long story but vendor put house on the market without informing his ex. No for sale board. Viewing arranged for day after it was on right move. Offer made at just over the “offers over” price and accepted. Mortgage was already agreed in principal, solicitor instructed. Property was already vacant and he wanted a quick sale. Two weeks after offer EA called to say there was a problem. Ex had got wind of the sale and 1 thought sale price was too low and 2 thought she should have had 1st refusal. She took him to court- judge ruled house should be revalued and she should be given time to obtain a mortgage. House revalued at 4.5% higher but it was what they were willing to have gone up to. She went back to court 4 times and each time given more time to find the funds. 5th time still no funds so they were offered house at new valuation, they said yes as long as it wasn’t readvertised. By this time mortgage offer had expired so had to start the process again. Homebuyers report flagged lots of issues but value was same as new valuation. Vendor allowed a second viewing at this point with builder, electrician and gas engineer in to quote for work. The builder advised that a lot of the structural things on the report didn’t need doing they were precautionary as the surveyor cannot see inside walls etc so they put them on to cover themselves should anything come to light in the future. They decided not to ask for a reduction as it would mean the court being involved again. It was April last year when they viewed and they have just exchanged and paid deposit last Friday!

All of her behaviour sounds pretty standard. Not batshit.

as we needed to make sure our child’s crib would fit in the smaller room

Out of interest, what would you have done if the crib hadn’t fit?

I think there's two separate issues here.
1- 2nd viewing to measure up for curtains etc. It would be nice if the vendor would allow this but not the end of the world if she doesn't.
2 - if your solicitor is advising not to proceed without further clarification on the chimney, then you need to listen to them. You need to send someone in to check. This is not a second viewing and you don't need to be present.
If the vendor won't allow number 2 I would pull out.
You probably should have clarified point 2 before coming back with the counter offer, but it's not unreasonable of you to ask for this as it could end up costing you a lot of time and money.

Unless you are a cash buyer you are in the hands of the mortgage company with valuations. Family member who is in the business despairs of sellers who put very expensive kitchens, bathrooms, conservatories into budget homes then expect every penny back when every other identical house in the street has a much lower valuation.

The mortgage company knocked 30k off my friends beautiful home because it only had street parking after the big extension they had built. She was spitting feathers.

OP gone then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But OP hadn’t ‘knocked’ money off their offer. The bank has said the house was not worth asking and therefore will not lend the money.

Unless the vendor could get a cash buyer, she would be unable to get more than £137k as the same issue would arise with any mortgage buyer.

She's pissed off but you are right not to pay more than what the surveyor valued it at. She is unreasonable. Tell the agent that if she doesn't co-operate that she will risk losing the sale.

Usually second viewing is done before you make an offer. Usually after exchange of contracts you would go to measure for curtains etc. I suspect she thinks you might change your mind or ask for more reduction. She has presumably got somewhere to move to and has incurred legal fees, so probably does not want to lose the sale. I haven't read the full thread.

Just to say the majority of people on this thread are also insane. Of course you ask for money off if the survey undervalues the house and throws up problems ffs.

Also viewings after accepted offer are more common than not! I've always been back to measure up before exchange and have never sold a house without agreeing to let people come back to size up either.

@crispysausagerolls - Used the larger second room. Yes we could have waited until we got in there, but we had a king size bed to get rid of before moving if the crib didn’t fit in the smaller room. Just to save on moving costs as we’d have needed a bigger van or had to keep it for longer.

Weren’t the room dimensions on the particulars?

I agree that a second viewing is completely normal. When we moved I did think anything of our buyer asking to come round to measure up as they wanted to get appliances and sofa’s etc ordered. Surely no one expects you to do this before your offer has been accepted. I’d be tempted to get out while you can. It sounds like more stress than it’s worth and I’d be anxious why she didn’t want a builder to assess the work that needs to be done. I’d get out before you spend any more money on it

Yes you get money off if there's a survey issue. The problem is that OP already did that! She had the survey done and rather than say "the survey found a chimney issue so I need a builder to tell me the cost to put it right" she said "I'm paying you £13k less because of this issue", the vendor agreed and then she wants to send in builders and change the price again. So from the vendor's point of view these buyers can't be trusted and are behaving like dicks. Next time she needs to follow the proper process; get second viewings arranged including builders for anything she wants to cost up that will affect the sale price, and only then agree a price. If the survey brings up issues then send in builders before renegotiating. If she forgot to measure space for a fridge at second viewing then she can ask the vendor for a time to visit (but not linking it with the sale at all and maybe measure it after exchange) or just buy the fridge after moving in.

@alsohuman - I’m not sure of that was for me, but if so no they weren’t. Or strangely on other houses similar in the area.
I think the lack of measurements downstairs was laziness on the EAs part, though with the upstairs they had SO much crap in the rooms that you couldn’t get past it to take any.

I agree that you should have made a second viewing before you made the offer. They have reduced it and are not probably worried that if you came back something else would show up and you want to lower the price again.
My buyers were a big nuisance, I lost count over the number of times I had to let them have access. Once was to check the fence in the back garden as they were worried their small dog would escape. Others were architects, engineers etc. I would not be so accommodating again and initially I was worried that they wanted more viewings with a view to pulling out or lowering the offer.

Do many people saying that others are ridiculous/insane etc because they think that what happened when they bought a house is the only possible way it should happen.

@sootspritez

i’m guessing you have pissed them off with the strange order you are doing things in. They thought they had a sale in the bag but you keep doing things that undermine their sense of security in that.

For info, here’s how it should have gone:

1. First viewing -a screening process
2. Second viewing -to confirm this is the one for you
3. Offer subject to survey
4. Survey
5. Withdraw offer given surprises in the survey.
6. Advise vendor that you may be willing to make a second offer following the survey but will need to price up remedial work, confirm whether they will allow access for this or whether they intend to undertake the work themselves.
7. Proceed depending on their response to 6.

By simply making another offer, after survey, it will have seemed to the vendor that you felt you had enough information to simply proceed to the sale and she could have her privacy and piece of mind back until exchange. It must feel like you are back tracking, and many vendors would be pissed off by this. Selling your home can make you feel very vulnerable and intruded on. The point at which you accept an offer is usually a point of great relief.

If you must measure for curtains/furniture etc, it should really be after exchange, when the vendor can be sure it's not a timewasting exercise.

I hope you prefer the other house OP. I’d drop out of this one. I agree that you usually do the second viewing before making an offer. She doesn’t have to let back for a second viewing under normal circumstances or to measure up. But I think the fact the surveyors found a problem with the chimney means she should let someone back in to check it’s mendable at a reasonable cost.
We viewed our house we bought last year twice. Once offer was accepted they kindly aaked us back to measure up for curtains etc. We went a few times. But they didn’t have to. If you are unsure then walk away now. There will be other houses.

It has been interesting reading this.

We bought this house knowing it needed a lot of work. We saw it 'normally' twice, then put in an offer.

We then had a full structural survey (which is possibly where the OP has gone wrong), which came up with a rather exciting further list of things that needed doing to make the house safe. Un-earthed electrical circuits, windows that moved so much when the wind blew that there was a very real risk they would shatter inwards on a blowy night, excitingly experimental plumbing that meant there was a water contamination risk.... not structural, but not exactly recommended when buying a house with two young children!

So we went round with a series of tradesmen. We actually used trades recommended by the letting arm of the same EA at this stage, because then it was clear that we weren't trying to bring in our 'own people' for some sharp practice.

We created a spreadsheet of original offer, then cost of the key repairs (the ones we hadn't budgeted for in our original offer - we knew it would need new kitchen, bathrooms, heating system and flooring, so had already taken that into account) and sent it to the vendor via the EA to show how we came up with the reduced offer.

They said yes, and then invited the whole family round to tea to celebrate (it was an elderly lady who had brought up her own two children in the house and was delighted that we would follow on the tradition). It was, throughout, courteous, professional and stately in pace.

OK, we're 10 years on now and have just done the roof replacement that the surveyor said we would need at this point - but had the vendor said 'I'm not having anyone round after the survey', we absolutely would have walked away - though tbh having the full monty, in terms of survey, was by far our best move as all the information was available in a comprehensive form very early on in the negotiation - no 'the homebuyers' says this, so we'll need to go back and have another look'.