To ask if you realise we are going through a sixth mass extinction of species?

[amandacarnet]

There have been five mass extinctions of life before. The most famous of which wiped out the dinosaurs. With the rate of extinction of species it is clear we are currently going through a sixth mass extinction. This is caused by climate change and human wrecking of animal habitats. And it will if not halted, lead to the extinction of humans.
It is not going to happen over night, this is not a made for TV disaster movie. But as we ruin more animal habitats and climate change gets worse, we will make living environments for humans worse. In Avery short space of time we have seen decreasing world wide fertility thought to be caused by plastics, much more frequent occurrences of dangerous weather, rising sea levels that are reclaiming land from humans, and decreasing levels of animals that are needed for human survival such as bees.

It IS a middle-class obsession though. You have to be of at a certain level of income and comfort level to be able to focus on environmental issues. People who are struggling to survive aren’t concerned about plastic in the ocean. They just need access to cheap efficient sources of energy from fossil fuels so that they can improve the quality of their lives.

Sorry, I probably should have said that this article I linked to says it’s not likely we’ll all be wiped out by super volcano etc. Even their worst case scenario talks about it effecting the US only. But then, I guess twenty years ago there were plenty of articles saying global warming & cc were a load of nonsense, so who knows.

www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169/yellowstone-supervolcano-eruption

I’d rather not waste my time worrying about that when cc is real and we can all do things to reduce the impact. Even if not for humans, for the rest of the planet.

So are you planning to sit your children down and advise them not to have a family of their own?

I have seriously had this conversation with my dd. She is not sure at the moment whether she wants to have children for the reasons that you state above. No-one likes to think of their children suffering in those predicted scenarios. So, yes, it does makes sense to not create them in the first place.

People who just go on reproducing are the ones in denial imo.

Well, in my opinion, it is hardly nice, no.

But as far as I can see, humans lack the collective capacity to address this. The population is too high - we're not going to initiate breeding control or mass slaughter. We're actually actively sustaining unsustainable populations.

We're not controlling big businesses, and we're actively electing those who aren't taking this seriously or who are actively making things worse.

Climate change protests will only really take effect when there are direct, persistent negative consequences of that. Probably too late, and not something we can precipitate by trying to make people care before it effects them. I say that as a historian and anthropologist before anything else.

And yes, if I have children, I will advise them to limit breeding, care for the environment etc.

But on the whole I GENUINELY think mass extinction of humans isn't a bad thing. We're the apex predator, and we're shaping our environment to suit our needs. There will never be an evolution of a new significant species under our watch. The choice is we go extinct, or the animal species of the planet remain more or less exactly the same for ever. I'm more bothered by that than the idea of some theoretical descendants coming to a rough end.

It’s good for the planet, though.

And it’s close enough to inevitable.

We can all do what we can. But what’s the point in hand wringing over the inevitable?

My hope is that it doesn’t happen in my children’s lifetimes. And I’ll educate them about CC in the hopes that if they do reproduce it won’t be a brood.

The thing is, we weren’t supposed to be this many for this long.

People living until their hundreds, IVF etc. it’s great for us now but it was always going to have an impact.

It would not be good for the planet if we all died out right now though.
We have a lot of mess to clean up before we shuffle off.

That’s why we cannot push the fuck it button and say meh.

And it will if not halted, lead to the extinction of humans. thats probably the best thing that could happen. The world is not ours, you know?

Imagine living and fighting your way through an ice age, the climate change that caused the great migrations, the black death, natural disasters wars, world wars, and God knows what else, desperqtely just about passing the torch forwards for thousands of potential future generations, only for some descendant to decide in this age of absolutr luxury to end your line because of climate change.

I think we should stage a grand signing of a document of agreement not to reproduce in Trafalgar Square, and Extinction Rebellion can all come and sign it like the American Declaration of Independence. Put your money where your mouth is guys. :)

Then let's schedule a national AGM after that to see how it's going. Say in 110 years or so?

So are you planning to sit your children down and advise them not to have a family of their own?

I wouldn’t necessarily advise them not to, but I certainly won’t be pushing for grandchildren! I wouldn’t infringe on the reproductive rights of my dcs, or anyone, but I think the time will come when infertility and economics means that far fewer people will choose to have dcs.

There’s a bbc article from last year, where they talk about low birth rate in many countries. So, it may already be happening.

I heard a young woman from extinction rebellion on the radio and she said she was campaigning because she wants to feel able to have babies. It isn’t that people have to stop having babies to prevent cc, it’s that cc is pushing us into having fewer babies imo.

It isn’t that people have to stop having babies to prevent cc, it’s that cc is pushing us into having fewer babies imo.

Sorry, for some people it absolutely is the former; there are some amazing, selfless individuals who decide not to have much longed for children, just for the greater good. I think that in general though, the latter is true for more people.

Poor people prioritise survival, those who can truly take charge prioritise big business and ££££££££££

Humans are a plague. The earth would do very well without us.

Realistically what can we as individuals do? I think that the people who are not climate change deniers feel helpless. I avoid meat and dairy, recycle, use a mooncup, compost food waste and grow my own veg as well as using wax wraps instead of cling film and use reusable water bottles. My energy supplier is one of the green ones, I shop locally and buy second hand wherever possible. I do drive but cycle or walk wherever possible and I didn't have the third child I really wanted to have but none of that is anywhere near enough is it? I feel like I'm stuck in a burning building with men in suits blocking the doors tbh

So are you planning to sit your children down and advise them not to have a family of their own?

YES, absolutely! If I had to do it over I wouldn't have had any, but I was young and dumb. The single biggest thing a person can do about climate change is not to procreate. Much else is farting in the wind.

we are not going through a mass extinction. Mass extinctions occur from cometary/asteroid impact, not from global warming, over fishing or anything else like that.

Just on another thing with this green lobby.

You do realise that the end result of so-called green changes, is going to be a return to a subsistence economy, or at the very best - pre-war type living standards

The response to the banking crisis was to keep interest rates low to encourage spending and maintain GDP

If we stop spending, then there will be mass unemployment here and around the world. Fewer cars, fewer foreign holidays, fewer consumer goods, less food choices, , lower living standards generally. Fewer cheap clothes, less entertainment, etc etc. It won't suit many.

Mother nature really messed up by evolving us. Humans are a parasitic infestation on the planet and we absolutely need to die out as soon as possible. I sincerely hope my children don't have children for the sake of the planet.

The only way we could continue is if we went back to living in small hunter gatherer groups with extremely low numbers, high infant mortality, short lifespan and no modern medicine. Anyone volunteering for that? No, thought not.

We are animals. We're supposed to live a low impact existence along with other animals, but that's long gone.

The best we can hope for is to minimise suffering, stop reproducing and perhaps plastic eating microbes will evolve to deal with the pollution.

The Chernobyl exclusion zone has been reclaimed by nature and species are flourishing. The planet can recover, but not whilst we inhabit it.

Google sea creatures harmed by plastic and see how utterly vile we are as a species. Pregnant whales killed by ingestion of plastic bags. Horrible. We don't deserve to continue. We really don't.

Mass extinctions occur from cometary/asteroid impact, not from global warming, over fishing or anything else like that.

Mass extinctions are literally when lots of species die out - often for unknown causes.

www.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/mass-extinction/
Scientists have narrowed down several of the most likely causes of mass extinction. Flood basalt events (volcano eruptions), asteroid collisions, and sea level falls are the most likely causes of mass extinctions, though several other known events may also contribute. These include global warming, global cooling, methane eruptions and anoxic events–when the earth's oceans lose their oxygen.

I suspect tech is our way out - technology that provides alternative and more efficient energy and more recycling, possible ways of lowering green house gases, ways of getting food production to cope with more unsettled climates.

I think also more tax on planes flights and fuel generally will be needed but that won't be popular. There was a commentator on radio this morning say the same people lauding that teenage climate campaigner are the same one damming governments when they bring in green taxes and I thought yes.

*You do realise that the end result of so-called green changes, is going to be a return to a subsistence economy, or at the very best - pre-war type living standards

The response to the banking crisis was to keep interest rates low to encourage spending and maintain GDP

If we stop spending, then there will be mass unemployment here and around the world. Fewer cars, fewer foreign holidays, fewer consumer goods, less food choices, , lower living standards generally. Fewer cheap clothes, less entertainment, etc etc. It won't suit many.*

Indeedy doody. Vast majority of folks dont want to live without phones and washing machines.

Vast majority of folks dont want to live without phones and washing machines.

I sure as hell don't. Washing machines are far more efficient than hand washing.

All caused by the actions of humans, as humans have massively increased in numbers in the past 100 years, they are destroying the planet. When there were only a million people the world was a better place.

All humans need to reduce their breeding, unfortunately many humans are not allowed the choices to do this due to the nasty cults that control many places. They are often the places that will suffer the most as global warming increases. The planet will be a poorer place when most of the other animals are wiped out

Yes I agree as a species we are not good for the planet.
Yes plastics, yes high consumerism of everything from the earth ( gasses,fuels,metals , and I will add meat and fish to that !) Over population. The cutting down of rain forests and let's not forget nuclear.
It always makes me smile ( not !) when people have this idealised thought that millions of people will die and a few lucky ones will survive ( they usually believe themselves to be in the survive camp). They will roam around, being Hunter gatherers, occasionally coming across other survivors and eventually humankind will prevail . No, let's get back to nuclear . These sites are looked after by many people checking to ensure the absolute safety of keeping everything safe and controlled . They may well carry on for awhile, but then one day Kaboom ! How many nuclear sites around the world ? How many nuclear missiles in submarines, or bunkers. IMO that will be the end of the world. Man invented these and man will take out the world with these. They wasn't around during other 3,4,5 extinctions. Do we all think the world will recover as easy this time around ?

Denizovians interbred with humans as did Neanderthals. But as a distinct species, they died out.
Yes I know that most humans died out and only a smalll number survived in the past, and bred and expanded their population. But that is when we were hunter gatherers.
As poster below says we have created too many things that require human supervision and maintenance e.g. nuclear stuff. It really is not comparable to the past.

But climate change is having an impact on us all at the moment and will continue to.
In terms of infertility, it was a British study on British teenagers that has suggested plastic ingestion, which we nearly all have in our bodies, is linked to a reduced sperm count. At the moment the study has shown correlation, it needs greater study. There is also research suggesting some increased rates of cancer related to plastic ingestion.
This is affecting us now, and unless things change, it will only get worse.