To ask if you realise we are going through a sixth mass extinction of species?

[amandacarnet]

There have been five mass extinctions of life before. The most famous of which wiped out the dinosaurs. With the rate of extinction of species it is clear we are currently going through a sixth mass extinction. This is caused by climate change and human wrecking of animal habitats. And it will if not halted, lead to the extinction of humans.
It is not going to happen over night, this is not a made for TV disaster movie. But as we ruin more animal habitats and climate change gets worse, we will make living environments for humans worse. In Avery short space of time we have seen decreasing world wide fertility thought to be caused by plastics, much more frequent occurrences of dangerous weather, rising sea levels that are reclaiming land from humans, and decreasing levels of animals that are needed for human survival such as bees.

I genuinely have no idea why people are going on about the planet surviving

Unless Protozoa are typing?

If you're wilfully and callously hoping the 'others' will die (all those people who are 'not like you') then you're an arsehole

Your children and grandchildren are going to be utterly traumatised by watching millions if not billions die. Suicide will increase dramatically.

We will be fighting over water in 30 years.

I thought that on an individual level, in the western world, having children is the worst thing you can possibly do in regards to climate change? I always thought that the number one way for an individual (in the west anyway) to fight climate change was to have fewer or no children at all? Is that wrong?

No, I think that’s absolutely right.

But, it would be strange to blame mothers hundreds of years ago for giving birth. Or at least, it wouldn’t be my first thought. “Climate change is killing us! Oh, if only Queen Victoria hadn’t had all those children”.

Having children is a biological imperative and a right to family life is a basic human right. So I think blaming mothers for climate change is a bit overly simplistic.

Anyway, how about the fathers?

It’s impossible to say what future generations will think and to a point, that isn’t why I want to limit my impact on cc. Selfishly, I want to be able to live with myself and knowing what I know about suffering already being inflicted on people in poorer countries, I could not live with myself if I carried on regardless.

I think that “on an individual level” is only part of the picture and there is so much more to be done by business and governments too.

Also, (and sorry for ramble), you specified “western countries”^^. That makes sense as, one single, childless person in the west consumes more than the largest families in parts of Africa.

Seeing as that is the case, if we as a society lived within our means, having children would not be a problem.

That’s not to say btw, that population isn’t a problem. It definitely is and I strongly believe that people need to be empowered and educated to make the choice to have smaller families. But so is lifestyle. So, to say it’s fine for business men to charter private jets so that they don’t have to mix with the plebs, but that people cannot have children is just wrong to me.

Scientists believe that the first person who will live to be 200 has already been born.
After the first will come many .
That’ll really fuck the job up.
Anyway in a few billion years time the son will have used all it’s hydrogen up. Become a red giant, swallow up the inner planets including earth.
Now that’s what you call a mass extinction.
Don’t have nightmares, do sleep well.

Mother earth won’t recover, yes humans will become extinct, as do most species over time but the difference here is that one species, us, will cause the planet to be uninhabitable for nearly all species.
And before you ask, no I don’t fly on holiday, yes i grow nearly all my own fruit and veg, no I don’t use wet wipes, or single use plastics and yes I still feel guilty

Don’t have nightmares, do sleep well

😂 😂

You do make a good point that I’ve made before on here; it’s the really uncomfortable conversation that we may need to have some day in the future about people living too long 😬.

A relative of mine died last year and we borrowed some children’s books from the library about death for my dc. In it they said how people die to make room for all the new babies being born.

We aren’t at replacement levels for birth in this country, so the bigger ‘problem’ re population is that we’re living too long.

How we even begin to tackle that though, I have no idea.

I'm surprised how gung-ho everyone is on this thread too. I really feel upset that my children might not live a full and happy life but might instead be under great stress during the water wars after mass migration that would take place in their early 40s - the same age I am now.

Sure hypothetically in the far, far future the human race dying out doesn't bother me - but even then I'd shuffle off happier believing the future was one with a wide variety of life on the planet and the human race just dwindling with people choosing to have no children or one child and living simpler lives.

@grasspigeons

Obviously nobody has any idea what will happen. But, simply based on how the world works, I predict it won’t be just one, (constant war and stress) or the other, (peaceful dwindling out). Some people, (everyone?), will experience one or the other, or both. That’s life on this planet.

Some people already have a really terrible time in life, and people have done since we first crawled out of the primordial soup!

I am not trying to minimise, but having some perspective. It’s frankly pointless wringing our hands over the plight of individuals some time in the future, unless that somehow motivates us to make changes or fight for change. Nobody predicted the world wars etc. They still happened.

What is so much worse about what we are doing with cc, is that we could bring down most of life on Earth with us. That’s catastrophic for me and is why I believe we need to take action to limit the damage we do.

My friend lives in Qatar she said the efforts from the UK to recycle etc is useless when you see other countries like there's lack of effort or care about climate change. Its a much much bigger cause and I don't think any of us can do anything except do our best knowing it won't ever be good enough.

Bloody hell I've just taken out a mortgage. It all feels hopeless when you think about it.

Cupoftea hi.

I said in my OP that worldwide rates of fertility are declining now, and that is thought to be due to plastics. So you know all those women and men struggling with infertility now, some of that is down to how we behave as humans.

And no I did not go to the extinction rebellion protest as I live in a different country. But we have this thing called news and internet abroad.

What we do in the UK will make no difference at all. Unless China/India/USA get on boarded we’re stuffed.

We are also extremely vulnerable to nearby supernova and huge asteroid impacts, as well as gravitational "wobbles" which would cause asteroids to pelt the earth as such lengths that it would destroy all human life. All of these things are not maybe worst case scenarios, they are all things that are definitely going to happen at some point and will destroy life on earth when they do. And yet you have people saying that space programmes are a waste of money and that we shouldn't bother trying to send people to the mars or the moon because we need to "fix" our problems here on earth first.

Humans aren't general afraid of these sorts of things because they don't feel like immediate problems.

Shit happens. The last few decades which didnt feature mass death on britain have been the exception to the rule. I think what we've learnt if climate change does wipe us out is that all our gadgetry and comfort (that caused climate change) is for naught, we all die in our millions regardless.

That said, i dont think all humans would die in any disaster. As a pp said, we're really adaptable compared to many other species, essentially, we're a pest!

I am amazed at those who think humans will never be wiped out. Other humanoid species such as denozivians have been wiped out. No reason for us not to be.

I said in my OP that worldwide rates of fertility are declining now, and that is thought to be due to plastics. So you know all those women and men struggling with infertility now, some of that is down to how we behave as humans.

Yes, I’ve heard this too. Aside from how horrible this must be for those suffering infertility, what the hell else is it doing to us? Scary.

I try to keep up with what is going on environmentally. However I have a question....

All these plastics in the sea....have we (the UK) been dumping our plastic waste in the sea? Or is it other countries?

I know people leave rubbish on beaches after a day out but the quantities in the oceans are far more than that surely?

I believe (and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong) we don’t dump plastics at an industrial level, but we send our plastic for ‘recycling’ in to countries that do.

@pregnantsea: yep, this makes me laugh as our probability of extinction due to these things, assuming we survive that long, is 1, and we may be the first species on earth to know about it and have the potential to lower that probability, yet it's a waste of money. It would probably be easier than averting climate change, too, although that isn't saying much.

I take the view that humanity is a depressing species that won't look after itself, but who wants to live forever anyway.

Either way, the solution to climate change is not for (only western) countries to spend ourselves skint to return to the 8th century in many ways and wait for new tech, while China et al continue apace with pollution despite the economic privations we would be inflicting on them. Nor is it to create political distractions in countries where there is trouble brewing, nor is it to increase spending a thousand fold or propose legislation that would implement redistributive economic policies that have nothing to do with the environment.
There is a subtext of cynical political hijacking to environmentalism at the moment that just leaves me cold.

It's more likely that the yellowstone volcanic caldera will erupt before climate change wipes us out. It erupts every 600,000-700,000 years. Its been about 665,000 since last.

If this erupts from what I understand the Ash cloud could would spread so far farming would end around the globe ending life as we know it.

www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169/yellowstone-supervolcano-eruption

There’s always a strong sense of glee and smugness at the impending doom on these threads. Anyone would think Mumsnetters couldn’t wait for the place to go up in flames just to be proved right.

Other humanoid species such as denozivians have been wiped out. No reason for us not to be.

I thought it was now thought they got wiped out by breeding with us who had greater numbers rather than completely disappearing.

There's a bottle neck in our history - only a few humans surviving- possibly supervolcano in yellow stone park.

I do see climate change as a serious threat but I'm not sure hyperbole "we're all going to die" actually helps people make changes I think it makes people switch off.

I know there's been an unexplained decline in male fertility over last few decades since around 1970s - but I haven't seen that linked to plastic.

I can’t believe some of these comments, saying human extinction is inevitable and for some, a good thing

So are you planning to sit your children down and advise them not to have a family of their own?

Are you ok with the thought of your children as adults facing wars, water shortages, mass deaths and other horrific scenarios that the science tells us are pretty likely in their lifetime?

I just don’t get the dismissive shrug, nor the notion that the middle class protestors or David Attenborough etc. are preaching. They are trying to wake us all up! And I thank them for it.

I don’t think it’s good enough to say there’s no point us doing anything. If you think China or the USA is part of the problem, put pressure on governments to work together to find a global solution. I know this sounds fanciful but we’ve had Allies with other countries before in a crisis (WW2) and should be treating this in the same way.