To say this monster should never be released

[Mummymummums]

He murdered three tots. Was not mentally ill, and has never explained why. Yet apparently he has changed a lot in prison and is cleared for release.
How can this be right?
AIBU to say that this man must surely be pure evil. Or can he really have changed?
Note: the articles give details, especially the 2nd one, which some may prefer not to read.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-48039373
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-46443110

Death*

It's impossible to have a non reactionary discussion about things like this. Yes there are a few high risk offenders who reoffend, there are many many more who are low/medium who go on to commit heinous offences alongside those who've never been to prison. The USA have ridiculous 300 year sentences they still have a higher murder rate (proportionate to population) it doesn't work.

He has already served almost two 'life sentences', you don't trust the judgement of the professionals but you do trust vague reports in the media and comments made online by people who react emotionally with no actual knowledge about the offender. Excellent basis for any judgement.

It's also up to the courts to sentence, they did, the justice system is simply enacting the sentence handed down, they cannot lawfully change that. But no it's the fault of the prisons and the parole board.
As for the victim who says she had no input on release conditions, read the hmip report on the failings of warboys , the officers in that case had followed protocol and some victims/family chose not to engage with the vlo service (who would've contacted them to ask for their input and to notify of possible release) then complained they weren't notified. All victims are asked at the point of sentence (for a qualifying offence which this would be) if they want to engage in the scheme she could have if she wanted to, I don't blame her for not wanting to hear another thing about him, but she can't then complain she wasn't consulted.

Lots of assumptions too about why the parole board decision was reached, buy none of you will have had access to the report and evidence they received, not the detail of the reasoning behind their decision, so just jump to conclusions.

@BejamNostalgia would you advocate for the deal penalty if it was one of your children or your DH or even you?

Yes. I imagine his family have been through a great deal of shame, stigma and guilt because of what he did. I would imagine every time his crimes are in the press like this old wounds are opened. They may also have young relatives so his release may well cause his own relatives more worry than anybody because they would be terrified he might turn up on their doorstep. I imagine his family probably went through a horrendous time when his crime was committed and have periodically had to suffer every time he tries for parole. If he’s released they will probably live in fear he will offend again and it will all be dragged up again, blame apportioned and fingers pointed at those around him.

Bearing all that in mind, I think his family would want him to remain in prison for the rest of his natural life as much as anybody else would and maybe more. I certainly would in that position. And yes, if that was one of my children or my spouse if the choice was between them being executed (usually at a very distant time from the crimes anyway) or walking free I would probably think an execution would be the kindest for all concerned.

It's beyond all logical reasoning as to why he's being released, I believe that prison became his safe haven.
His real punishment will be after release when someone inevitably recognises him.

And to add

Someone who is stronger than he is. Not 3 defenceless children.

If I was that mother I would sell my house and fund someone to hunt him down.

Personally think the chair is too good for him, or any painless death penalty.

Lots of assumptions too about why the parole board decision was reached, buy none of you will have had access to the report and evidence they received, not the detail of the reasoning behind their decision, so just jump to conclusions

Well, yes, but this is the root of the problem rather than the excuse or justification you seem to think it is.

The system as it currently stands means there is very little oversight and scrutiny of parole boards and the decisions they’re making. So there have been a series of poor decisions made and a general public feeling that parole boards err away from the side of caution (Jon Venables, John Worbouys, Jason Owen etc). I think most people would agree that there can be no change or reform which could ever justify even the tiniest risk of such an awful crime happening again.

I think the fact there have been a series of poor decisions made recently is starting to indicate that more scrutiny and accountability is needed for parole boards.

He has already served almost two 'life sentences

That means he still has the third to serve yet.

Is there any way for the public to appeal this; the home secretary overrules sometimes in cases like this, don't they?

@BejamNostalgia
Agreed but that scrutiny needs to come from professionals not trial by media or Mumsnet, reformation of review processes is underway.

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-02-04/HCWS1295

I don't care if he has changed or he is reformed he should never get out. I wonder if he will get a new identity at the expense of the tax payer?

You do realise that murderers and sex offenders are released every day in this country...
This has been through due process there is no remit for the justice secretary to be involved

Those saying he’s done his time, should be allowed to move on, will be closely monitored etc. Genuine question. How would you feel if he moved to your area? What if you found out he was living next door to you?

Besides the fact I think the crime merits a whole life tariff to protect the public, I’m concerned that someone like him with no life on the outside and presumably no support network might not be able to cope and reoffend purposely to try and get imprisoned again.

Someone who is stronger than he is. Not 3 defenceless children

This is part of the problem though. It’s basically modern left wing endemic contrariness. Basically given any situation whatever most people would react emotionally and would think the right cause of action based on that, a lot of people on the left work out what that is and then do exactly the opposite because they believe it shows triumph of the rational over the emotional and therefore makes them superior. And many parole boards are stuffed with this type of person as they are most common in senior public sector roles.

So true while most people would find the murder of defenceless children he was in a position of responsibility over, the number of children and the horrific manner of their deaths aggravating, left wing contrarians will refuse to be swayed by this and see that as not only a personal virtue but also a laudable act of mercy for which they expect praise from their peers (which as this thread shows they quite often get).

The problem is that these are not things which require a rational mind. Killing defenceless children for no apparent reason is one of the most emotive things you can do. It will have a horrific emotional impact on the victim, the offenders family, the local community, the police, medical staff, the judge and jury, the medical staff involved in the justice system and even just parents in general as it affects the way they parent and who they feel they can trust. If he’s released there will be some poor sodding probation officer out there terrified today is going to be the day he gets a call saying McGreavey has reoffended and he has to have every iota of their work with him ripped apart and scrutinised for reasons why. If he is in a local community either they will be very frightened or they will be entirely ignorant of the massive risk on their doorstep.

It’s not really the merciful and rational response the left think it is, paroling someone like this. It’s just downright callousness and a refusal to accept that the emotional and mental toll of these crimes is significant or worthy of consideration. A good example of this is Denise Fergus. She’s an entirely innocent victim but she’s vilified by many on the left far more than the men who killed her child are. She’s the villain and the murderers are the victims.

Contrariness. Virtue signalling contrariness.

Agreed but that scrutiny needs to come from professionals not trial by media or Mumsnet, reformation of review processes is underway.

But that scrutiny only came about because of ‘trial by Mumsnet’. It was public outcry that forced changes. I can’t believe anybody could be deluded enough to believe the Worbouys decision would have changed if the press hadn’t picked up on it and he’d quietly slipped back into the community.

‘Trial by Mumsnet’ or open and accountable justice are an important part of the justice system and an important check on its activities. This doesn’t always mean public scrutiny will work against the accused either, Sally Challen and Sally Clarke being the first cases off the top of my head where public scrutiny of the justice system has led to its decisions being challenged.

BejamNostalgia

I agree. Completely.

@ZippyBungleandGeorge you cannot rehabilitate a psychopath. And if you ever think you have, then you have been had.

They are physically, chemically, biologically, litterally, actually incapable of curing. They are missing a piece of their puzzle that cannot be found nor put back in.

@Fiveredbricks i thought PPs said he wasn't diagnosed with any psychological or mental health issues?

Somebody like that should never be released. I don't care if he has changed etc. I would rather he had been exterminated straight away.

@BejamNostalgia I don't actually have an opinion on whether he should have been released or not because I'm not in possession of enough information to accurately assess his risk. He was given the sentence he was given, that can't be changed, it can only be enacted and due process followed based on the information held, which is what is happening here. It also happens for countless other individuals daily.

My points regarding the death penalty and life meaning whole life, as dry out by other PPs as the 'solution' is that murder rates aren't lower in countries that apply those sentences so I don't believe that's the answer to protect the public, which is surely the point of it all.

@Fiveredbricks didn't realise you had access to his medical records.

When someone has been in prison for that long it's no longer a punishment, it's all they know and they'll have their routines and be relatively comfortable. A life on the outside will inevitably be more stressful and restrictive. I'm surprised he even wants to be released.

How the fuck could a life on the outside be more restrictive? He will literally have access to do whatever he wants.

The crime is abhorrent. I just don't believe that detention for life is as much of a punishment as people think it is

It may not be so much of a punishment after a certain time, but by fuck it’s a good guarantee the offender can’t reoffend. That’s good enough for me.

I could ask you the same thing @ZippyBungleandGeorge...

Amazing what you can find on the internet these days.

There are some cases where the key should be thrown away and this is one. Not to continue retribution but to keep the nation's children safe. If a dog had savaged 3 children to death one day and for some reason it was illegal to euthanase it, then no amount of rehab with a top animal behaviour expert should mean it could be allowed out in public. Rather it should be kept in a dog pound in a locked run and exercised , muzzled, on a lead, in an escape proof area surrounded by 20ft razor wire till it dies of old age. Not to punish it; but to be sure it never kills again.

Those poor parents. That poor police officer. Can you imagine being that police officer. Can you imagine falling asleep every night, even now, wondering if you're going to have your own personalised nightmare again tonight and remembering every time you wake from it, that it really happened.