Can I be forced to work part time?

[Wurkit]

Hi all

I’ve name changed for this and I’m feeling a bit upset so please don’t flame me.

I’m am returning to work in June after having dd2. I will be returning to work on the same basis as before my mat leave - working 4 compressed days. I’ve done this for quite sometime and it works reasonably well.

I was diagnosed with anxiety after my dd2 was born and I feel like it’s not getting any better or worse

I spoke to my work and asked them if I could work a day from home a week. They have the technology to do this and made a big fuss about it when the technology was rolled out. I do the sort of job that doesn’t require me to be in the office every single day and could easily wfh and get more done.

My work are refusing to let me work from home on a set day. When I ask why they say “they just don’t allow it” when pushed further on this they can’t give any further reason. This is an enormous organisation- not a small firm or family company. I know several teams across this UK who do the same job as me work from home regularly.

My boss said to me that I could work from home different days of the week and I spoke with him today to say that I could try and do this and he changed his story to “oh well I can’t promise you’d get it every week..”

I’m at my wit’s end. I can’t afford to work part time and I can’t afford to pay for childcare over the 5 days. My DH works away and I’m honestly feeling like I could have a breakdown over it.

It’s 2019 and I’m trying my best to get out and work and hold my own in a time when the company I work for is all about “flexibility and diversity” it’s total nonsense.

I just feel completely drained by it all. They’ve offered an occupational health referral but I’m completely terrified and anxious that they’ll force me into part time hours.

Could this happen?

I guess you could ask them to allow it on a trial basis for 2 months to enable them to measure your productivity levels from home.

Oh OP Anxiety is the pits

Have they said they want to renege on the 4 compressed days and switch you to 5 days?

Or are you wanting to work from home on one of your long days?

I am not sure what benefit/tangible difference to your mental health the working from home day brings unless you have a long commute, which you've not mentioned as a problem/ WRT anxiety (which I have lived with for 7-8 years now).

If you want it though, after maternity leave, as I understand it you are entitled to ask for flexible working - and they have to give a business case for refusing. There's a process set out for this. I would talk to HR. And also I would take them up on occupational health meeting. They can't cut your hours without you agreeing.

@churchthecat

Yeah people in the same role wfh.

Hi OP, I see that you have only spoken with your boss re your requests. I would put your request into writing, and be very clear about how it would benefit you AND the business and you will then get a clear (and hopefully considered and fair) answer back. I don’t think you are asking for the world but ultimately it is up to the business.

So it's just your manager that doesnt want to allow it?

In that case I would challenge it. If other people in identical roles wfh, why would they not allow you to trial it?

Have you put in a proper request to vary your hours.And if so have they formally responded.They have to give a proper reason with reference to the business.If they haven't I would push for this

As its a big company there is presumably HR etc.Your boss probably just doesn't fancy it(most wouldn't ) but if you escalate it to HR it might be a different story.

TBH everywhere I have worked this would be seen as pusing your luck.

Also sometimes,unfairly, they let people they like have whatever they want,but if your face doesn't fit,then its a different story

Right I think I understand now. You were previously doing 4 compressed days in the office. Now you want to do 3 in the office and 1 working from home. You'd prefer it to be the same day every week for anxiety reasons but would be prepared to do any day providing 1 a week was guaranteed?

So the flexible working arrangements are just 1 day WFH. That doesn't sound an unreasonable adjustment for your anxiety.

I think your employers have already shown you great flexibility to offer you 4 compressed days. I don't see why they would then go even further and make one of those days working from home as well? Where is the benefit for them.

I am not being unkind but they don't care about your work life balance, nor do they care especially about your pp anxiety I suspect, they just want you to get on and do your job as agreed.

I would stop pressing for another change, and be glad of the 4 days. I think you are being unreasonable to expect them to accommodate this as well to be honest. What they offer to you, they have to offer to everyone, so it may not work for them at all

I suspect they think you will be cutting down the childcare costs by working from home if it is a set day, and they are not keen on paying for you to work whilst you are caring for dc

I would leave anxiety out of the discussion - this is a flexible working request post parental leave and the process for this is set out in law and presumably by your company.

You also need to look at what else you can put in place to help live with and tackle the anxiety, rather than assume your desired slight changes of terms and conditions in the workplace will make the difference.

I know that is easier said than done especially as it seems to me that your situation is pretty hard-going, with a baby a young child, demanding work and a partner who works away. Realistically working less might actually help short term. Your long term mental health is much more necessary and valuable than a short term hit to the pay packet. I would take a step back and look at the situation from outside and do an options analysis. But in the meantime don't spiral into what ifs about imagined work scenarios about being forced to work 5 days or part time.

It sounds like you can work from home on one day a week - just not a set day. They can't make you work 5 days if you are contracted to work 4. You have childcare set up for 4.

Everything is sorted, just not a set day at home yet. Once you start back you will get a better feel for what's going on and can wear them down to a set day at home. It might make it easier not been set as if you have home repair or delivery, or an appointment it might be easier to push for a certain day that suits you that particular week.

OP, you are really unclear - calm down and take a deep breath.

What days do you want?
Which of them you want to wfh?
What childcare have you arranged for what days?
How the PP anxiety will be lessened if you are WFH (as child will be elsewhere anyway)?
What benefit is this to your employer?

Oh Op, you sound really upset.

I think the problem is that you already really have your flexible working request with the compressed hours. My guess would be that they didn't really want you to do the compressed hours but they had to offer it due to, well, flexible working. Now, in their eyes, I'd imagine that they're seeing that you've already got something I suspect that most people don't with the compressed hours and that now you're asking for more.

Yes, I know that you're working loger days but what they probably see is that you want to work 3 days in the office and one from home for a full-time wage.

You might have to escalate it to HR to see if they can assist but you might have to accept that it won't happen.

Is the working from home to help with your anxiety, I'm not sure if that could come under some sort of reasonable adjustment?

(Oh sorry - I didn't refresh the thread before posting - thanks to pp for clarifying the situation. Still confused as to the anxiety bit though)

I read something recently (might even have been on here) saying that asking to trial something can work better than asking for a set-in-stone change.

Then if it's going OK, extend the trial for another few months and so on, until it's your norm and no one is fussed when you ask to make it permanent.

Obvs not going to work if your manager is dead set against it, but might allow the company wiggle room to either change or agree if they are concerned that 3 days in the office just isn't enough?

I'm unclear why you are worried they might 'force' you to go part time OP? You've said they've refused the working from home bit, and have also said they might want you to do 5 days if 4 compressed is "too much" (too much in what sense?). That doesn't seem to tally with a concern they might force you to reduce your hours altogether?

Hi OP

I work for a large multinat and know a reasonable amount about flexiworking - nationwide.

🙄 It’s a fantastic concept and they do make a song and dance about rolling it out but in reality ‘WFH’ is still in its infancy and there are plenty of ‘old school’ managers, who don’t love it, hanging around.

Even ‘flexi friendly’ managers are unlikely to agree to full WFH days for someone who they perceive as ‘struggling’ at home. (I’ve seen this is practise multiple times). It often applies to those struggling with mental health, or returning from Mat leave. (Unfair but seen as nobody is entitled to WFH it’s not discrimination - legally)

Basically, from what you’re describing, right or wrongly, they’re dubious of how committed you are to coming back to work and how capable you are of ‘keeping it together’ and working a day from home given all else you have going on. 🙄

Flexible working is a priveledge and not a right- something they often forget to mention whilst singing it’s praises and leading a ‘flexible working’ marching band around the office to promote it.

Once they agree to WFH on a regular basis it’s very hard for them to pull the reigns back in! I think the smartest thing you could do is to forget about asking for an ‘agreement’ about you wfh as they’re not going to agree to anything right now.
I’d ask if you could ‘trial’ it for a couple of weeks and see how it goes? Whichever day is best for them you’ll work from home and after 3/4 weeks they can see what they think.

Flexible working goes both ways, so saying ‘I want an agreement that I can wfh this day each week’- isn’t ‘flexible’ for your employer. 🙈

You are already working 4 compressed days and they have said you can work from home one of these days each week if business conditions allow. I'm not sure what more you want. Working from home doesn't negate the need for childcare, that's what every employer fears - working from home people who don't clock the appropriate hours.

I'm surprised by some of these responses. I don't think what the OP is asking for is unreasonable at all. There is a massive push for work/life balance, mental health awareness, flexibility etc across a lot of companies recently, and for good reason.

A PP asked how OP working from home once a week would benefit the company. I don't think that's the right angle - rather, would it be at any detriment to the company? If not, then why wouldn't they say yes - even on a trial basis?

I don't think it's much of a slippery slope either - if OP has this granted and suddenly everyone wants to work from home once a week, well, so what? If there's a solid business reason, then fine, but otherwise why not show a bit of goodwill to your employees?

May I also add that it is not surprising that you are feeling anxious given the lack of support you have in terms of dh being present and able to help with dc and home, you have aworking four days is not a walk in the park, it is obviously very tiring on top of what is already a very demanding period in your life.

Is it even doable to have a full time job given your dh works away from home, and you don't seem to have a support network around you?

I don't have anxiety, but I would feel very anxious in the situation you have described.

I don’t understand where part time comes in.

I think I have this right: you are paid to work full time, but have previously made a flexible working request to compress that role into 4 days. You now want to work 1 of those days from home, which they seemed to be open to, but couldn’t guarantee it would be the same fixed day?

You can request, but to me it looks as though they’ve already been quite flexible, and I suspect they want flexibility back over the work from home day because of any meetings, or other people out of the office on leave where it would be better to have you in the office. If they change your contract to the same fixed day at home then they’re restricting themselves too much.

On the face of it, it seems you have a pretty good deal at the moment. You can request what you want further, but it does sound as though you could end up shouting yourself in the foot as they obviously have some doubts about the compressed hours

I work for an organization offering a lot of flexibility, and it DOES cause us issues to be too flexible. We were just looking at setting a meeting date, and the next time that everyone would standardly be working in the same office is June!

However, I do understand what you say about anxiety. I gain 1.5h back wfh. I use half an hour to exercise half an hour to sleep, and half an hour to catch up on household stuff. It refreshes me in the middle of the week, and reduces my out of work burdens. However I always have to push people to remember that I am very happy to change my day if needed!

I do understand what they are saying about the compression being perhaps too much also though - you become unproductive after a certain number of hours, especially with anxiety.

Would it perhaps work better to have your day off in the middle of the week to recharge?

Shooting not shouting

There is a massive push for work/life balance, mental health awareness, flexibility etc across a lot of companies recently, and for good reason.

Unfortunately for a lot of companies it seems to be more lip service than actual reality. You only have to read all the threads on MN about genuinely awful companies to see.

Bless you OP, anxiety is crushing and awful.
Sorry if you've already mentioned this, but are you getting any help for it? I started Sertraline for dreadful anxiety and insomnia about 4 months ago and it has been incredible.

It might make it easier not been set as if you have home repair or delivery, or an appointment it might be easier to push for a certain day that suits you that particular week.

Oh is this what ‘working from home’ means? No wonder some employers are reluctant.