To think free speech is dying

[Doggydoggydoggy]

I’ve just been deleted off a Facebook group because I dared to respectfully, as in stick to the facts, do not personally insult anyone, use no offensive terms, offer an opposing viewpoint.

The most rage inducing thing is a few of the comments from people on there actually were disrespectful but it was only me that got deleted.
Because it seems that being rude is absolutely fine as long as it is within the agreed opinion!

I hate the term but the world really is full of absolute bloody snowflakes and political correctness and censorship really has gone mad!

People it seems can say whatever the heck they fancy but immediately shut down any opposing view.

Tolerance is more lauded now than ever but there has been a massive growth in hypocrisy as people try simultaneously to control others' output!

Rolled eyes are no longer enough.

It's not free speech dying as such, more a lack of tolerance from people to views with which they disagree. More and more people spend time with like minded people and assume that everyone thinks the same way, the echo chamber. Anyone who dares to disagree with their narrow view of what is acceptable just gets shouted at.

I too find the increase in no platforming alarming, especially at educational institutions which should be THE place to have debates around completely opposing views rather than banning them. Just because you ban something doesn't make it go away, history proves this. It does however give credibility to opinions what would otherwise be shown up as nonsense if it were allowed a platform and a light shone on it.

Like the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.... it may just come true.

I think mn is the most heavily moderated place ive ever used. Posts and threads disappear often.

But thats up to mn and if you dont like it go elsewhere. Nothing to do with free speech

I dont think ‘free speech’ is the right word but I do think social media is becoming a total echo chamber. I kind of get why because relatively few people are capable of a debate as opposed to a fight. Also, sometimes you just want a group of like minded individuals where you’re not constanly going over the same ground/defending your assumptions. So for example I’m on a running group. It’s about running and sharing new races and trail routes. I don’t want to see endless threads about how running is bad for your knees and I should do pilates instead. Banal example I know but you see what I mean.

Your example seems a bit harsh though.

"freedom of speech in terms of tollerance of speech and the intellectual courage associated with that attitude as opposed to people who no platform speech they aren’t strong enough to argue against."

Hear hear!

YANBU.

It isn't just a social phenomenon, either. There are several conversations that can happen now, including on MN, where half of the argument is dangerous to express because it could see legal repercussions. The police arrest a bit more frequently than 2 people per day in the UK under the same laws as were used in recent high profile cases of women being arrested for being gender critical.

It is a matter of time before people spin certain feminists as being far right, and the thing is in the UK we're all too busy virtue signalling and popularizing to do what we should do - back people up in their free speech and expression even if we disagree with them. If nobody does this, we get the freedom we deserve, and it gets shut down group by group, opinion by opinion.

Virtue signalling and polarizing debate*

Free speech is already dead. Look at what you can be arrested for, lose your job over and even on social media what you can get in to trouble for. It's dead as a door nail. I said this would happen years ago, to see the future you just have to look at what they're bringing in today. When they started bringing in hate speech laws which everyone agreed with and for good reason, including me, but I was more skeptical and I said that will be a foundation to expand and rope in what people can say and think. I was right, they have used hate speech laws introduced 20 years ago to gradually stranglehold what we say bit by bit expanding such "hate speech" areas at a huge pace in the last few years. Social media companies are all in the pockets of governments so no shock at just what people are being censored for, banned for, even doxed and lose their job for! There is more surveillance in this country on its citizens than probably any other country in the world. Keep that in mind when you comment on social media or even speak to people.

I disagree completely, take up your argument with the appropriate company. Or are you simply wishing for a skirmish? Surely not . By the way, I've revived many a bee with sugar water, a spoon is a perfectly adequate container for it.

Free speech is fine. People have always stopped listening to view points they disagree with, it's how human beings work, just in the past we sat somewhere else in church/the pub/university to avoid people they disagreed with and now you can get kicked out of bee related Facebook groups.
It's not new and it's got nowt to do with free speech.

I am more interested in this product to revive bees. Is it a mini defibrillator? Or maybe smelling salts in a tiny little bottle?

I think the problem with this generation is that they've never been told no so they can't understand that people have a different opinion from them and they can't cope with it when it emerges in a discussion.

And of course the internet has allowed people to only associate with people who have the same views as them so it turns into lots of little Echo Chambers. Everybody seems to hate those with a different opinion to themselves vociferously.

It's all very strange and doesn't bode well for social cohesion. Gone are the days when people met up with each other physically and there were lots of different people with different opinions who got on with each other.

Well, we all know that dictionary definitions are now classed as hate speech and can result in the police knocking on your door, so I’d agree with you OP. I’m not sure what else you can call the police of our country accusing people of thought crime and future crime.

The police, FFS.

I agree with Kamelo in that I find a lot of people seem to really struggle to converse with people who have different opinions even when the subject matter is pretty trivial.

For example I joined a fandom group recently for something I've loved since I was a teenager and it's very different to the communities I frequented 10 years ago. There is almost no tolerance for anyone with a different opinion to the mainstream views on characters or romantic pairings whereas in the past you could have a bit of debate and people would at least read other people's ideas even if they didn't agree.

I also think the term "hate speech" is broad to the point of being totally meaningless these days.

There was a radio programme on Radio 4 at 11am on Tues where two people, from right and left, swapped social media. So much of the tweets wre soooo goady it wouldn't matter what side you were on you would get wound up. Felt my stress levels rising just listening to it.
So glad I'm not on social media.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0004f1m

Freedom of speech seems to only exist if you are agreeing with the majority.

If freedom means anything at all it means being able to tell people things that they do not wish to hear.

                                         George Orwell.

I am more interested in this product to revive bees. Is it a mini defibrillator? Or maybe smelling salts in a tiny little bottle?

It’s a little card you carry with sachets of sugar solution, you place it near exhausted bees and voila!
Revived bees.
It was in the guardian, designed by a man called Ben Richardson from Norfolk I think

Free speech does not include the right to force others to provide you with a platform.

If a Facebook group decides it doesn't want to be a platform for X, Y or Z then this does not interfere in anyone's free speech.

It's censorship though.

I think the problem with this generation is that they've never been told no so they can't understand that people have a different opinion from them and they can't cope with it when it emerges in a discussion

Usually I would completely 100% agree with this but the majority of people in this group are elderly, not of my generation.

It’s such a silly, first world thing to be annoyed about but I am so irritated!
The absolute injustice!

I disagree completely, take up your argument with the appropriate company. Or are you simply wishing for a skirmish? Surely not shock. By the way, I've revived many a bee with sugar water, a spoon is a perfectly adequate container for it.

I wasn’t arguing!
Genuinely wasn’t, I was in support of the product but not the plastic used to make it.

I asked for a link to a study about why sugar water was bad (i have also used it to revive bees) Andy stated that if we are able to help a struggling creature we should.

No rudeness or aggressiveness whatsoever, but because the view was in opposition to the view that bees should be left to die, boom, deleted.

I meant as in people seem to be getting less and less tolerant of opposing views and more and more Sensitive.
From when though? Before social media when there weren't any Facebook groups to be kicked out of, not anything like it (because as Boom45 points out those with differing view points wouldn't be there in the first place.)

I think that back whenever you're talking about if there was a Bee Resuscitation group and one member was opposed to the group's thinking they would be very much ousted. Not as suddenly like a deletion of course, but shunted out.

All this rubbish about snowflakes and being sensitive is just one generation's intolerance of another's different attitude. The whole 'youth today' outcry has been happening for hundreds of years.

(Though in the OP's example someone certainly does see someone has a bee in their bonnet (😁) about not a lot. This is certainly not a new thing though.)

Many FB groups are for people of the same opinion to talk about that opinion with others around the world. (The mods and admin will deny this but that is my opinion) The people aren't looking for balanced debate or critical thinking- they want affirmation and support from similar people. It means that you have to try lots of groups before you find The One. If you want a debate then you need to find a different platform.

I think it's goady behaviour to join a FB group that favours a certain opinion but post links and arguments about the opposite opinion. So if you were banned from an anti-vaxx site for posting reasoned arguments to pro-vaccines stance then I can see why kids would ban you for arguing. People on that group only want to see anti-vaxx stuff.