To think 10 pounds per hour is very little to receive for cleaning?

[FakeUp]

This seems to be the standard payment as far as I am aware. The work is often physically demanding, especially if someone is cleaning two or three places every day. Let's say someone cleans two places for 30 pounds each Monday to Friday, they earn around 1200 / month (pre tax). This may have been fine in the time when women had a cleaning job to supplement their husband's salary, but now when many women are single or divorced and supporting themselves, it seems like a very small amount to survive on.

YABU. Care workers get paid £8 per hour round these parts (rural countryside). They not only do a lot of physical work with some responsibility (hoisting disabled people and administering basic meds). But they also do cleaning as part of their work, travel - and if the visit is only for half an hour - after travelling sometimes 30 mins plus - they only get paid £4 for their time! There'd be a fight for £10 an hour cleaning job! Much easier, less travel, less chance of abuse (from service users who are mentally disabled) and better paid to boot!

Care workers get paid £8 per hour round these parts

But again you are comparing the hourly wage of an employee with a business service charge which has to cover the running of the business before calculating the wage

But they also do cleaning as part of their work, travel - and if the visit is only for half an hour - after travelling sometimes 30 mins plus - they only get paid £4 for their time!

That would be illegal. Workers average hourly rate needs to meet minimum wage after including time spent on travel between appointments. (that isn't to say it doesn't happen, just that its illegal).

Care workers are badly paid but so are most cleaners. This thread is a nice illustration of how an insecure labour market can be used to set low paid workers (and frequently women) against each other in a battle for the bottom.

I don't see many poor agency owners for all these low paid jobs.

Vehivle

My daughter did care work as you describe, with much unpaid travelling time in a rural area. It is hard, but she got a lot of satisfaction from helping clients and interacting with older and disabled people.

When I offered to pay her for domestic cleaning in our own home (which she lived in at the time), she said no. She preferred care work. I can only guess this means that interaction with people who are cared for is more satisfying for some than cleaning up other people's mess.

Wasn't there very recently a big battle in community healthcare workers trying to get paid for their commute time? I know a lot still struggle regardless of the law. Disgusting it really is.

I think women, whether doing difficult emotional or physical tasks, are undervalued. They are encouraged to undervalue themselves and each other. I would find cleaning exhausting and really appreciate what my cleaner does. I have been paying 10 pounds/ hour but it feel wrong and I am going to increase it (thank you for the reminders about self employment costs). But I also think people offering their cleaning services should ask for more. If people do not want to prioritise paying for cleaning, that's their decision. Their work should be valued, not derided.

I agree with the comments that we should avoid pushing each other down and should expect fair pay for what we do. Those doing skilled caring work or physical domestic work are undervalued and underpayed because it is mainly women's work. The gender pay gap is being given some attention but the disregard for occupations with a high proportion of women, as important in my view, is largely ignored. Currently the most reliable way for a women to be paid a fair wage is to enter an occupation traditionally populated by men.

Yup, OP. Cleaning, care and catering are all shitty types of employment when it comes to pay, because these are all the things that are 'women's work' and therefore underpaid and undervalued.

Thing is, these are also all the things that can't be outsourced to a developing country with even lower wages, can't be automated out of existence, can't be done without...

@Prequelle yep. I worked as a carer and travel time wasn't paid as such but if a call was 30 mins, you spent 20-25 mins there and the rest was travel time as you would finish a call at say 8am and be at the next for 8am on the rota. Luckily travel time didn't really affect us as our calls were back to back so no time off at all!

And they were sensible, I would say "look, I finish here and then I could go home but you've put my last call in the other direction! Can we not swap this or I do another call?" And they would change if

I recently left a cleaning job where I got £7.38 an hour, 5am shits, with the most horrible employee ever. I hope I never have to clean again. I'm only mid 20s but I spent the week exhausted and the weekend in pain, it killed my joints, muscles, and will to live.

we'll just get the staff to clean the premises as well as doing their jobs?

I remember a few workplaces in Japan actually did this, as in, had workers clean their own offices, those offices were filthy!

£10ph is mates rates. I charge more unless its friends and family. It is demanding, and you need to factor in NI and pension as well as holiday accrual. £10 is the equivalent of less than minimum wage( on a self emp basis)

"we'll just get the staff to clean the premises as well as doing their jobs?

I remember a few workplaces in Japan actually did this, as in, had workers clean their own offices, those offices were filthy!"

You joke as if it doesn't happen here. I know it's very common in very small workplaces (say up to 5 people) for there to be no cleaner. There might be a rota for cleaning the toilet, but I wonder if anybody ever dusts in those places.

I work in adult social care (not care of the elderly) and get less than £10 p/h.

That said, there are also significant travel costs, so by the time I've got everything sorted almost 1/3 of my wage goes on fuel.

But I'd argue care workers should be paid more, not that other folk should be paid less.

People really don't get the difference between employed and self-employed, do they?

Also the inference that all self-employed cleaners and indeed self-employed people in general who get paid in cash are fiddling their tax. What a load of bollocks.

Our cleaner gets £35 for 3 hours. She does a great job and brings her own products. She has a lot of flexibility though, no childcare during holidays from school as she just brings her child with her. You couldn't do that in employed positions.

Also the inference that all self-employed cleaners and indeed self-employed people in general who get paid in cash are fiddling their tax. What a load of bollocks.

Very true. It smacks of "but why can't I have tax breaks?" without actually considering the cost of being self employed!

Implying everyone who is self employed is diddling their tax is not only wrong, it's pathetically ignorant of facts.

The thing is for cleaners is that they only get £10 whilst working and get nothing for their travel and the gaps they can’t fill in the day. I do part time cleaning and if I’m trying to work a full day an lucky if I come away with £40.

Pretty much all businesses also employ cleaners to clean the business premises. What do you think would happen if the business owners went, oh, rather than pay cleaners a living wage, we'll just get the staff to clean the premises as well as doing their jobs?

I'm a retail manager and we don't employ a cleaner. Staff are expected to do the cleaning as part of their job. I clean toilets, vacuum, mop floors and wash up most days. I think you'll find that's fairly normal outside of an office environment!

I don't know. In London it's obviously not enough, but elsewhere? It's ok imho.
It can be a job but there are no qualifications or rare skills are needed so I don't see anything wrong with £10 na hour.

My mother worked several cleaning jobs and a bar maid job throughout my childhood. She was always driving to the next 2 hour job.

The work was flexible though and enabled her (she had no qualifications) to have a job and independence. Without those jobs our family could not have existed on my dad's poor wage. Yes it was hard work, but it also saved her from the monotiny of "keeping house."

I think £10 is average here in Birmingham and comparable with other unskilled roles, although I'd like to see wages rise across the board. My mother still cleans at 73 and gets £15 (cash in hand) for 2 hrs!

Recently my husband was looking at Tesco delivery driver jobs and while it wasn't self employed, the salary was woefully low, especially after hearing how another driver had been robbed/attacked on a delivery.

My nan was a cleaner at a pub into her 80s too. Again, it enabled her, a widow of 30+ years, to earn money to top up her state pension.

When I was ill as a child my mom would take me on jobs though as there was no sick pay.

I employ a cleaner for my business and I pay her £15 an hour, it seems meagre for the work she does, it’s non stop graft in what can be a messy and greasy environment after a busy day.

@DesperadoDan that's different to domestic. I assume you are talking catering. That also usually requires training in professional cleaning products because you can't really clean commercial kitchen with Asda smart price stuff and it has more risks than domestic cleaning. We never paid under 15 too. Usually more towards 20.

We are supposed to pay ours £8.50 an hour according to the agency but we pay £10 per hour. We are in the midlands.

It's not much. Childcare wages are also very low for a difficult job. You earn more per hour as a nanny than a nursery assistant because fewer people want to work all day on their own with children, in unstable employment and with zero career progression. Cleaning is a similar proposition.

@ InspectorClouseauMNdivision
Your right, I’m upping her pay and making up the difference in pay for the last month. She seems happy with what she earns so I haven’t questioned it, £15 an hour is meagre for what she does.

This will all be cash in hand - and in their back pocket s rather large top up to claiming welfare

@PlainSpeakingStraightTalking - & you know this for a fact because ..?

Many cleaners are employed, paying their tax & NI, & may also have to manage the indignity & anxiety of zero hours contracts.

Your assumption of "claiming welfare" is snobbish, unproved & vile.

Are you not aware that Perfectly Naice people can earn £100k & still be "claiming welfare"? - yes, earning a giant wage yet still scrounging Child Benefit off the state.