To be skeptical of employees illness

[ashvivienne]

A few weeks ago an employee on my team informed me that she had been given a cancer diagnosis quite recently but hadn’t informed us till she knew all the facts and exactly what was happening. She is in the early stages and has informed us that she’ll be receiving chemotherapy which she has now started.
We have had a meeting with our HR department and occupational health staff as she has said she’d like to continue working as long as possible. HR have asked for a letter from her doctor so we can obviously get the ball rolling on accommodations such as reduced hours and time off for appointments on sick pay rather than unpaid leave or holidays. She’s refused to give us any letters that she’s been given none and that if she goes to her GP she’ll need to pay for one (I’m going to discuss it with HR if we can pay for the letter).
She is obviously friends with some people in the office and we have each other on social media. She has been out heavily boozing on numerous nights out even since starting treatment and has even spent this bank holiday out for 3 days not returning home.

Aibu to be skeptical? It feels harsh and part of me does think maybe she is putting on a brave face but there just feels like something isn’t right.

I had low dose chemo (methotrexate) for a chronic illness, a 1/10th of a normal dose weekly by injection for 6 months and then I had an increase. It says all over the chemo medication NOT to drink. I had to go for monthly blood tests as the chemo is processed and cleaned out of your bloody by your liver and it can cause issues even on a very low dose never mind full. It also makes you feel like total shite, even in small doses I got mouth ulcers, hair loss, constant nausea and I was exhausted.

If I had cancer and I had a chance of being cured, nothing could make me drink. If I was on palliative care, I wouldn't be on chemo and would be drinking whatever I wanted.

Surely any appointment letter from the oncology department would be sufficient proof, and she would have had those... and could readily produce them pending any further letter needed from the GP.

I think you're right to be slightly sceptical on the lack of evidence. But don't judge her for her FB antics, in fact, don't mention it at work because it's entirely unfair to judge her on what she does in her personal time off. I have two friends with cancer who are both living life to the absolute full, travelling and going out. You'd never guess they were unwell from their public personas.

Any letter about her condition that she has received herself she can just photocopy and hand in to HR. I don't understand why she has not just done this, or why she says that she does not have any such letter.

I think you are being unreasonable about seeing her enjoying herself on social media. People living with cancer and chronic illnesses are entitled to enjoy themselves too! There are good days and bad days. And we all know people only show the good days on Facebook.

Look at bowelbabe aka Deborah James (google her or look her up on Instagram). She has stage 4 bowel cancer and is running / drinking / partying and living life to the full inbetween gruelling cancer treatment.

My mum died of bowel cancer 4 weeks ago and 2 days before she died she was sitting up drinking a glass of wine and eating a cream cake. Admittedly she did look truly unwell but you have to grab life while you can!

I don’t think many people truly understand the highs and los of chronic illnesses unless you’ve been through it or had close experience of it.

Just ask her for a fit for work note from the dr that the company will pay for. And then make any allowances needed based on that.

Fwiw I got cancer after a horrendous break up, after moving hundreds of miles from home and after the long protracted death in the family of cancer. I didn’t tell a soul but my employer (who I did give drs letters too even though they didn’t ask). I was very lucky and knew my chance of getting through it was very high. If you’d seen my social media you wouldn’t guess I’d ever been ill. I blamed my resulting hair loss on a freak reaction to an infection. Don’t believe everything you see and hear on social media.

I appreciate the need for privacy however the employee can't expect work to help without some documentation. There will be letters sent for appointments and diagnosis, often these cc. the patient in so they will have copies. For the sake of providing one letter the support the company will offer would be worth it.

There are many different types of chemo, my mil drank on all but one of hers (she had many different types through primary and then metastatic).

In all honesty, for a lot of the time, you would have had no idea how unwell she was unless she told you. She socialised, drank, holidayed and generally got in with life much as she did prior to diagnosis.

Of course it is entirely reasonable to ask for a letter, but it is totally unreasonable to doubt her based on her social media life. Some people cope very well with chemotherapy, others suffer dreadfully with side effects.

I agree the facebook posts are irrelevant but why the lack of any written medical proof at this stage when she says she has already been diagnosed and started chemo?

My mum never received a written diagnosis of her terminal cancer. She had appointment letters but nothing to confirm anything. They tend to tell you orally in meetings.

Ah I see

My husband had to be in hospital for 4 hours recently, and there was some expected recovery time. The first thing they asked him was whether he was working and needed a fit note. Surely any hospital she attends for chemo/radio or whether treatment will offer that - which is the documentation intended for work purposes. Once you have that I would refer to occ health if that is an option for you for them to sort.

I know someone having treatment currently and they are fit after chemo until day 4 when it floors them. So, adaptations may need to be made from what happens not just assumptions. She may well have been picked up through breast screening (for example) and then she may well feel very very well at the moment and be making the most of every minute.

There are people who fake this but it must be very very rare and should never be an assumption at this early stage. She does have to comply with the right procedure though.

I have a very close friend with an aggresssive brain tumor and likely only 9-12 months to live

Her FB page is full of day trips with the kids, 2 girls holidays, family outings. Because she’s trying to do everything she can to enjoy herself whilst she can. So judging her based on social media alone is being completely unreasonable.

Having said that, DH has a serious condition that is resulting in a lot of time off work including each time his meds change. He couldn’t have been more willing to give copies of anything needed to his work/HR, and was keen to show that he’s not being a piss taker. I get that people see medical info as highly personal (because it is) but surely openness is critical if you need allowances to be made or time off for appointments.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been said, but sometimes hospital consultant letters have too much information on. I have regular appointments for a chronic but no means fatal illness, and hate showing letters to work as they have a lot of information in I don't want folk to know.

I write to employees doctors for medical reports as part of my job and they just invoice us with the report... there's no need for the employee to pay for it.

It sounds like she's holding something back but this doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have cancer... maybe she's just uncomfortable with her medical situation being discussed with her employer.

Difficult to say if the nights out/away prove anything.. she could have been staying with a friend and gone back early to her friends house for all you know.

I'd push for the letter but if she refuses, say that you can only manage her sickness in line with the info available to you.

You are entitled to request a fit note or letter from her medical team at the hospital confirming treatment plan, eg two weekly chemo cycle. The social media stuff however is a red herring, she's probably trying to have a good time before treatment starts. Good employers pay for the fit note (in arrears) in these circumstances. My friend works 3 days a week and had chemo every other Friday so just changed her days to have Mondays off plus Friday on chemo week and Tuesday on week following chemo with the understanding that if she was feeling unable to come in on the Wednesday she could switch the Monday as well. She barely took any extra days. But chemo varies depending on protocol so sometimes people cannot work at all

Oh and do you know you can request a report (need her consent first) and she can see it before it goes to you and ask for any info she doesn't want you to see to be removed? Maybe if you tell her that she'll be more willing to comply with your request.

Why are you asking on me? This is a legal matter for HR

When my mum had her first cancer diagnosis she reacted by decorating the house from top to bottom.

I don't remember the second diagnosis, I think she went on holiday.

When she had her third and terminal diagnosis she and my dad had a few holidays involving a lot of booze.

She attended a few family gatherings in various parts of the country, she went to visit my niece at uni and took her out for dinner, took some friends shopping.

She even had the odd glass of wine in the hospice the week before she died.

I think it's a bit mean spirited for you to want to re-schedule her two non-working days to fall straight after her treatment days (so the company is not impacted by her absence).

But YANBU regarding requiring a doctor's note.

When you say they "refused" to give you letters, etc... do you mean just hasn't been forthcoming with them or has the person actually stated, "no, I'm not providing those"?

Social media stuff means nothing and you shouldn't be judging based on that.

When I was pregnant I remember being given a note to confirm my pregnancy - to prove i was entitled to mat leave and associated benefits... I would think it's very lax of an employer to not seek some kind of medical evidence of any kind of long term illness.

and i'm not saying pregnancy is a long term illness...

This is a difficult one. When I was first diagnosed with cancer I didn't have anything in writing. I also went out a bit, went on holidays etc all through treatment. I had surgery followed by intensive chemotherapy. I was lucky that even through chemo I could work, go out, enjoy myself etc. I had very little, if any, sickness. I made no reference to having cancer on social media. I also cold capped to keep my hair. I literally didn't want people to know/feel sorry for me. Work did know though and I provided the relevant certificates although any letters did need paying for. I was a stage 2, grade 3 so pretty serious.

YANBU to be wary based on the refusal (?) to provide any sort of GP or consultant letters but do be wary about being your opinion on social media posts.