Extinction rebellion. Waste of police time.

[sabrinablue]

Whilst I worry about climate change and try to do my bit, I can't help but feel that the extinction rebellion protests are going a step too far. So many officers in London are dealing with protestors that they can't get resources to those who are in trouble and need it. As a survivor of domestic violence who needed to call the police and have them attend quickly, I can't imagine what would've happened if they couldn't attend.

AIBU to think that a) the protests will likely not influence any government plans to tackle climate change, and b) that protests such as these are a huge unnecessary drain on police resources as soon as people start breaking the law.

Or am I missing the point entirely?

They're not disrupting everyone's journeys in london. I believe cyclists are able to get to work as usual. Not everyone drives or uses public transport.

Vulpine wonderful except not everyone can cycle (disabilities and lack of appropriate facilities to allow for this). Then there are cyclists who bring their bicycle on a train to use in London. 55 bus routes affected for a good cause but again no politicians to witness and outside London very few other places affected

But lots of people can and do cycle. Lots of people who live and work in london are not having their lives disrupted and have enjoyed the quieter streets

What pisses me off is they are hurting the normal working people. No one with money and influence is being harmed at all. Colleague was late to work due to the protests. He is a contractor so had to make up the time, time he wanted to be spending with his new baby.

One way to accelerate change is to increase the ambition and I assume this is partly the point with the zero emission by 2025 request. It's a negotiating tactic.

Also this is not really about individual action any more, it's past time for that. It's about political pressure and system change. There's no point criticising people for being hypocritical by flying when people have built their lives around being able to travel long distances quickly. Surely if humans can send a space ship to Mars, with a bit of determination and investment we could come up with low or lower carbon ways to fly. Combined with some personal or political efforts to fly less that could make a big difference.

As for there being no point doing anything in the UK as we're relatively small emitters, I disagree. We still have the 15th highest carbon emissions in the world which is not that impressive for such a small country. Plus there's an element of environmental justice in the Paris climate agreement - those countries who have emitted loads of carbon to develop already have bigger obligations to improve sooner than those who are still trying to improve the standard of living through development. Plus there's no harm in leading by example is there?

I do understand people without children not being interested in this. You'd have to be very unselfish to make significant changes which will have little impact in isolation for the sake of other people's children. I'm not so bothered about the survival of the human race other than my own little humans.

I think someone has already said to reduce the overall affect takes big decisions amongst which is not having children/only having one child. So is there advocation of sterilisation of children to reduce the impact? How extreme do they wish to go? There is a lot of selfishness in the world from I cycle so can get to work so that’s fine to little things no longer make a difference only big change will so why bother? Where is the line drawn and who decides the best course of action?

I don't think anyone is proposing sterilization at the moment. Birth rate in the UK is relatively low. Education of women is one of the best ways to reduce birth rate in developing countries.

But this is partly why some political action is needed. And I don't think it can come from within localised party politics. Tough decisions are not vote winners. Extinction rebellion are proposing a citizens assembly. They recognise the problem is not easy. They propose having more people with more ideas on how to make some progress. Right now I think their main aim is bringing some attention to the issue and they're doing pretty well with that. They may have annoyed some people but I think they've inspired a lot too.

I think a lot of people recognise there is a major problem, but have felt impotent to change things, other than pottering around the edges with reducing use, reusing, or travelling less.

But we are stuck in a system which encourages us to keep buying and discarding more "stuff" and to regard travel, whether a one or two hour commute to work, holidays or business trips, as normal.

Extinction rebellion comes as a relief for many - a catalyst for change, something people can pour their passion into to help save our ecosystems and their amazing variety as well as producing more pleasant and safer environments in which to live. ER has the potential to protect against societal break down avoiding mass movement of people displaced due to the effects of climate change, bringing with it serious infectious diseases. It can help us pass the planet on to our children and the generations after.

I think it is going to get enormous support from people who realise that to achieve this we are going to have to make massive changes to our lives. It will mean living much more simply, but that is not necessarily negative. In fact it could be extremely liberating. What we see as giving us pleasure is all relative.

I've been an environmental activist for over 10 years. I took my kids to march in the 2009 "Blue wave" march before the Copenhagen summit.

In that time, successive UK governments have done the bare minimum to deal with the issues around carbon emissions and climate change.

My kids are young adults now. We can't afford to wait another 10 years.

I don't mind my journey to work being disrupted if it helps lead to a change in policy. And the level of debate & media coverage suggests that these protests just might make a difference.

“Living more simply”,

^this, in spades.

Living in a high crime rate area of London (I think we have the highest crime levels of the whole UK actually) with young people getting stabbed frequently, two stabbings on my street so far this year & the blood doesn't get cleaned away so it stays there for days unless it rains. My 4yo has virtually walked though it on the way to nursery.

And you really don't think the world will get more violent with the inundation of entire countries due to global warming? That is a thought that terrifies me.

As for the people saying that UK is negligible and it's India and China who should be clearing up their act, the UK is actually higher in the ranking for carbon emissions per capita than either of those two (way higher than India). It's a small country so less emissions in total, but how easy is it going to be to convince the Chinese to do things differently if the British (not to mention the Americans) insist they can still have a much more convenient lifestyle? The European countries are small individually but they are very visible.

the UK is actually higher in the ranking for carbon emissions per capita than either of those two (way higher than India).

Not according to the world bank re. China. China ranks above UK. True for india and the US is just shameful shit. I think China will probably sort itself out ( benefits of not having to worry about getting voted out) and the long arm of Beijing growing ever longer due to technology.) India’s actually investing heavily in renewables but they also have loads of coal and that’s a worry given where they are on the development curve and potential for growth ( in 2030 they will have something ridiculous like 40% of the world’s working age population and they’ll be looking to max out that opportunity).

Lots of positive headlines for Extinction Rebellion in the mainstream media, suggesting they are having a positive impact.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/business-leaders-voice-support-for-climate-activists-who-shut-down-capital-rl26bdxdg

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/22/time-denial-conservatives-have-take-climate-crisis-seriously/

I think China will probably sort itself out (benefits of not having to worry about getting voted out)

I take your point, but "not being voted out" can just as easily be used to inflict whatever's wanted on the population - especially if it's considered in the nation's economic interest

They may have cleaned Beijing up for the Olympics, but I did the 2.5 hour transfer from there to Tianjin and it's not air out there ... it's poison gas

I agree they have a bad record but separating out climate change from everything else (water quality, plastics etc), they are highly motivated to move to renewables because they themselves are resource poor (need to import most of their coal- what they have is poor quality, low efficiency and dirty, they don't have much gas or oil). Therefore their "economic interest" is to clean up electrification quickly because (all other things aside) it makes them much more self-sufficient and not so vulnerable to international pressure in other areas. Now that's obviously not 100% a good thing but it does mean that their interests are aligned with the Paris agreement. They are also undoubtedly enjoying not being the black sheep in the international community for once (looking at you Trump).

Its a pity that Boris wasnt allowed to keep his water cannons as they could have been used

Exactly, attached to very cold water. I see that the egocentric idiots left a great mess behind, particularly plastic water bottles, such hypocrisy but hardly surprising.

There have been a lot of false rumours and photos about protestors leaving rubbish and it's not true. In fact they have been cleaning up after other unrelated events. I've seen two of the locations myself and they're about as tidy and free of rubbish as you could possibly imagine for a gathering of so many people.

We should be thanking these people for trying to get some action on climate change. You may not agree with all of their methods but surely we can all get behind the cause. Unless you don't like having a planet that you can actually live on.

Seriously, many of these people have used up annual leave for all of our futures, many are old people doing this for their grandchildren and many are children themselves literally begging for their lives. And you want to shoot them with a dangerous anti riot weapon?

I think anyone that's trying to do something about it should be thanked.

Absolutely agree. Well said.

For anyone still following this thread who cares about climate change and would like to get behind the cause, having seen the actions of Extinction Rebellion over the last couple of weeks, I think they're doing a great thing. I wasn't sure at first and especially at the start I think they were badly portrayed in the media but the more I've seen the more I like them.

If you're thinking of getting involved, don't be put off by headlines about breaking the law or thinking it's just a load of hippy weirdos. For one thing there's no obligation to risk arrest or anything you don't feel comfortable with, there are many other ways to support the cause. And arrest makes it sound very dramatic and that they must be doing something awful but they're not. Everything I've seen in regard to these protestors has been entirely peaceful and respectful. Many parts of the protests have been perfectly legal and it's the type of thing, having seen it, that I would have no worries taking my kids to (and in fact I did).

I'm pleased to see them seemingly making some inroads for discussion with politicians. And some of the media stance seems to have softened and in some cases become supportive. They are pausing their action for now to regroup and reflect (and I expect a lot of them need to go back to work). I'm looking forward to see what they do next.

I see that the egocentric idiots left a great mess behind, particularly plastic water bottles, such hypocrisy but hardly surprising.

Are you sure those images are from Extinction Rebellion? The pictures which have been circulating on social media of an extremely messy park were later proved to have come from the area occupied by a totally different cannabis-smoking event, nowhere near where the Extinction people were.

I'd say that is also where the dope-heads observed by a pp are extremely likely to have come from.

We are all doomed. It’s all very well moaning about being late to work now. In 20 years when you are scrabbling around in the dust to find food for your children it won’t matter a jot.

That's what I thought corythatwas about the pp's people on the tube talking about weed.

There have been false claims of protestors leaving rubbish since day 1. I actually fell for it the first time and felt annoyed but then I visited the Waterloo bridge blockage and finding the exact opposite and how lovely they had made it. Even the Royal Parks tweeted to set the record straight on the Hyde Park mess.

I wish every criticism of this protest group (some of which are legitimate) would be bookended with what action YOU have taken to get politicians out of their stupor and stop pussyfooting around on what is a slowly but surely developing catastrophe for billions of people and wildlife on the planet. Current polls show the party which gives the smallest shit about the environment in the U.K. polling around 35% whereas the strong environmental party is polling around 3%. I’m not saying the Green Party has all the answers, but clearly something has to change with this picture, You don’t like Extincton Rebellion’s methods? Fine, but what are YOU (I include myself here of course) doing? What’s your solution to get those in power to wake the fuck up and stop putting the profits of a few dozen mega corporations before the planet. Saying Extinction Rebellion is shit solves nothing. What’s your plan?

YANBU. The protests are counter productive. The only thing they will achieve is turning the public against reform (not least of all because the reforms they are demanding are both unclear and unworkable). I have participated in climate agenda protests before (different, less wanky organisation). I strongly believe that we need to switch to renewables/nuclear for a variety of reasons (obviously climate change but also air quality, world peace, preserving fossil fuel reserves for the production of plastics/medicines etc). I also strongly believe that this can only be achieved through government action both through better regulation/tax cuts and diplomatic action. I know for a fact that extinction rebellion is not going to help to achieve anything beyond pissing people off. They are just doing for their own entertainment, if they were serious about climate change they would be funding research, filling lawsuits, getting involved with politics, fostering relationships with the media, speaking to the public (as opposed to making public life miserable) and, producing media materials stating their case. If they want to achieve the impossible they should just look at the people who made brexit happen, they weren’t causing major disruptions. If you want to influence the government you have to do it through the proper channels of influence. It’s not rocket science.

@sabrinablue I think you raise very valid points! These protests are a huge inconvenience and cause huge expense to the police force. However they are having an effect! People and politicians are taking notice.
I compare it to the Suffragettes, at the time, a lot of what they did was considered inconvenient, rude, and downright crazy to some. But look at the results now, women’s involvement in politics is an amazing achievement.
It may take time for the overall results of this protest to take effect, it might just drip feed the general public to make better choices which in turn may lead to government making new laws and protocol to do what ‘we’ can to best serve the Earth.
It is absolutely fair to be fuming if you have personally been inconvenienced or at detriment because you haven't been able to access the police service when required. But if this is the case, write to the police force, write to MPs, write to the media! This is something they need to know about! Often they are blind to situations like this. I know this isn’t much help when in a domestic situation and police are delayed in attending but it may help others in the future.
Just my two cents, hope it doesn’t cause upset or offence.