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AIBU?

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Extinction rebellion. Waste of police time.

202 replies

sabrinablue · 19/04/2019 07:40

Whilst I worry about climate change and try to do my bit, I can't help but feel that the extinction rebellion protests are going a step too far. So many officers in London are dealing with protestors that they can't get resources to those who are in trouble and need it. As a survivor of domestic violence who needed to call the police and have them attend quickly, I can't imagine what would've happened if they couldn't attend.

AIBU to think that a) the protests will likely not influence any government plans to tackle climate change, and b) that protests such as these are a huge unnecessary drain on police resources as soon as people start breaking the law.

Or am I missing the point entirely?

OP posts:
Figmentofmyimagination · 19/04/2019 23:03

There are some solutions around the corner - I’m heartened that we will be growing meat in a lab very soon, so that all the mass market processed meat products can be made from lab ‘meat’. This will make a big difference. My guess is that for a while, only the wealthy will eat ‘real’ meat, until eventually eating ‘real’ meat will become unlawful and one of those things you tell your grandchildren about.

And we need government action on flights. Fuel taxes should reflect the environmental cost of flying so that the user pays. We accept ‘user pays’ as a philosophy in so many other areas of our lives. I just don’t get why people think it’s sensible to be able to eg fly return to Hamburg for £70. Somebody is paying - just not the person taking the flight. It’s easy to accuse people of being hypocrites but it’s hard not to take advantage of cheap flights. The answer is for them not to be available in the first place. Just as we watch animals on a screen in their natural environment instead of going to the zoo, my guess is that in future, we will find out about the wider world through virtual experiences, and the ‘holiday’ market will look very different but not necessarily worse.

Meandwinealone · 19/04/2019 23:54

@nakedscientist
Spot on

reallyanotherone · 20/04/2019 00:02

I did laugh at a tweet relaying the story of a protester approaching a copper to complain and ask them why her 3am bus home was cancelled. Disgraceful.

soulrunner · 20/04/2019 00:11

There are some solutions around the corner - I’m heartened that we will be growing meat in a lab very soon, so that all the mass market processed meat products can be made from lab ‘meat’.

I hope so and I’d eat it but ... Depends what you mean by ‘soon’. Currently it costs upwards of $2000 ( variable cost) per burger so there’s a way to go before they refine the technology to a point where it’s mass marketable. It could take another 10 years. They need to get that burger to under a quid to compete with Greggs. It’s a bit like electric cars- the were always a theoretical possibility but it took years to improve battery technology to get the charge/weight ratio good enough for widespread adoption.

I’m v confused about the ‘tell the truth’ request. It’s all there as a matter of publicly available data.

howmanyleftfeet · 20/04/2019 01:32

I’m v confused about the ‘tell the truth’ request. It’s all there as a matter of publicly available data

What are you confused about? Are our politicians talking about climate change as an urgent issue, to the exclusion of pretty much all else, in language people with poor comprehension can understand?

No. They're doing Brexit.

They're not telling people the truth. They're lying by omission. You might know how to access the data but does your average Daily Mail / Sun reader?

billysboy · 20/04/2019 11:28

I bet these protesters would not be as persistent and worthy if it was pissing with rain and freezing cold like a normal bank holiday

nakedscientist · 20/04/2019 12:56

I bet these protesters would not be as persistent and worthy if it was pissing with rain and freezing cold like a normal bank holiday

This is undoubtedly true. However, it makes not on jot of difference to the validity of being terrified that our ice caps are melting and if we reach a tipping point regarding release of methane, there will be no more opportunity to sit on ones backside and complain.

Wake up and smell the CO2!

Thecoffee · 20/04/2019 13:03

I feel so sorry for the police. They get enough shit thrown at them already and now have their leave cancelled to deal with these fools. Totally valid cause but this isn't helping, nor is it getting the public on side.

howmanyleftfeet · 20/04/2019 13:58

The hypocrisy of one of them is extreme, she flew back from Costa Rica a week early to join the protests

Sorry, where's the hypocrisy?

Presumably she wasn't planning on walking home. What difference does it make if she gets the plane home in the week of the protest, or a week later?

Have you asked her if she's doing carbon offsetting for her flight? Do you fly?

What are you doing to prevent the looming ecological disaster that is threatening to wipe out our species, exactly?

Cbatothinkofaname · 20/04/2019 15:42

Howmanyleftfeet - I presume the point was that flying off to Costa Rica in the first place is a luxury. It’s not a necessary trip.

I think the issue of climate change is massively important, but I’d rather it were highlighted without such blatant hypocrisy, simply because the message is stronger then. I walked past several of the protesters who were puffing away on cigarettes and did wonder whether they can even see the irony

Islands81 · 20/04/2019 16:04

I have several friends who have been there over the last week and I applaud their efforts. Anyone who can’t see beyond the inconvenience of some travel disruption, to the fact that our planet is basically fucked unless we make some radical and massive changes NOW, needs to give their head a wobble. It’s the I’m alright jack attitude of our government that has been adopted by the masses - we’re all ok now, sod future generations. Very short sighted. For those who say it’s not the right way of going about it, what else do you suggest? Several high profile scientists have been pointing out for years that we are on the brink of disaster and nothing has been done. Maybe it won’t work, but at least they are trying to do something.

And personally I’m excited for this movement, it’s been executed in a calm and non violent way, as a means of bringing change. I’m hoping more people will wake up to the fact that we don’t have to just put up with shit, that there’s ways and means of getting things changed (and I’m not just talking about climate change). It worked for the gilet jaunes and the zapatistas.

soulrunner · 20/04/2019 20:08

our planet is basically fucked unless we make some radical and massive changes NOW

I don’t see anyone disagreeing with that ( although I’d amend to ‘humans’ rather than ‘the planet’. However, the fact remains that to address it, everyone has to have a worse quality of life now, where everything takes longer and is less fun, and to pay more for the privilege. Glad you mentioned the GJ because if I remember rightly, that was about fuel duty. So I wonder what will happen if the uk government put financial disincentives in place to reduce car use? The ability of any national government to unilaterally make changes is very small, especially in democracies where if you make life even slightly worse for the average person without immediately obvious compensation, you’ll be out for the next term (unless you can get cross party consensus but the case of the NHS makes that seem unlikely in UK because if ever there was a case for a cross party agreement to do something radical that’s it).

On the other hand, the ability of all governments to agree to make changes together has potential to bring about larger scale change but is very slow (not helped by Trump being a total arse).

On that basis I think the lack of concrete suggestions from these protests is somewhat telling. What exactly do they want TM’s government to do right now that is politically palatable ( and therefore sustainable) to achieve zero carbon by 2025? Just saying ‘climate change is scary’ for 5 days while doing downward dog on Waterloo Bridge isn’t a manifesto for change.

Merrymumoftwo · 20/04/2019 20:48

Instead of skateboarding or maybe as well as why not have stalls etc out showing how to turn plastic etc into useful items? Would twofold clean up the plastic they have while educating people on small things at the same time as making their demands to government.

Islands81 · 20/04/2019 21:16

@soulrunner, I completely agree with you. And while I respect them all for being there and trying to do something about the climate emergency, I fully believe they’re pissing in the wind for the very reasons you’ve mentioned. Which is why I’m not there joining them. As long as we have a neoliberal government, there’s pretty much zilch chance of anything major changing.

Davros · 20/04/2019 23:18

Our London Borough has just put up most residents' parking permits by 70% to discourage car use. There are also many initiatives to support cycling, e.g. the cycle super highways and the total reorganisation of Tottenham Court Road. These initiatives have faults because, for instance, it isn't possible for most people in London to switch to electric cars because of charging points but we do have good public transport, car clubs etc. Where I live we can't have solar panels because they are not allowed in conservation areas. Some years ago the journalist Justin Rowlatt spent a year trying to live as ecologically (?) as possible and came up against many challenges. It was very interesting. At the end of that year iirc he and his wife had another baby and basically undid the good they had done

LuvSmallDogs · 21/04/2019 07:35

So I did the WWF calculator and it said I’m 103% of the target (but quite good compared to the U.K. average). Most of my badness is my home, which I can’t do anything about as it’s social housing and there’s only one electric supplier.

Whisky2014 · 21/04/2019 08:50

I got 210% yikes. But we had a massice long haul trip I had to put in. That's not a "normal" thing for usbut we are 2 people living in a 5 bed house :/

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 21/04/2019 09:02

Yes OP I agree of course it's ridiculous and given the current funding to our police, irresponsible to send so many of them to a peaceful protest. But surely it's the decision of the state what they chose to fund & where they chose to deploy police?

The protesters are 100% correct this is an emergency & our governments do need to take action NOW.

Presuming most posters on MN have kids - this will affect them. Don't they deserve our attention before it's too late?

Have you watched this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47988337?fbclid=IwAR0U8j4uirk--3hNDtJsVxucRD1dcU79m-S1eJZrbgAhWGAbUIKhRiWVIVk

I have been asking myself this weekend very seriously about the changes to our lifestyle that will be necessary to save the earth. I hope others have too.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/ending-climate-change-end-capitalism?fbclid=IwAR30fVR18UOAkLZheDlicuS9esamRywKj6pnqSLOK4a_sjJ6OD6mz-UxHTM

I don't think we can be complacent any longer.

🤷🏻‍♀️🌏💚

IrisAtwood · 21/04/2019 10:01

Many of the posts in this thread show one of the (many) reasons that there is no hope. Selfish and short sighted.
Here’s a summary of what lies ahead - often within this century:
‘Since 1980, the planet has experienced a 50-fold increase in the number of places experiencing dangerous or extreme heat; a bigger increase is to come. The 5 warmest summers since 1500 have occurred since 2002 and even we meet the 2°C from the Paris agreement cities like Karachi (Pakistan) and Calcutta (India) will become close to uninhabitable. At 4°C, we would have “normal” summers like the 2003 European heatwave causing 2000 deaths per day! At 6°C New York would exceed temperatures of present-day Bahrain, currently the hottest place on the planet.’

‘The basic rule for staple cereal crops, like grains, corn and rice, is that the yield will drop anywhere between 10% and 17% per degree temperature increase which means that in the worst-case scenario with a 5°C warming, we may have to feed up to 50% more mouths with 50% less yield.
......If nothing changes dramatically, by 2080, lots of places that today are our main food suppliers like Southern Europe, South America and Africa will be in a permanent extreme drought and will not be reliable as such to provide us with any stable level of food supply.’

‘The fraction of carbon dioxide is growing in the air: It just crossed 400 parts per million (ppm), and high-end estimates extrapolating from current trends suggest it will hit 1,000 ppm by 2100. At that concentration, compared to the air we breathe now, human cognitive ability declines by 21%. On top of that small increases in pollution are capable of shortening life spans by 10 years. The warmer it gets, the more ozone forms in the air and research show that unborn children expose to higher levels of ozone are more likely to have autism’

‘Without a radical reduction of emissions, we will see at least a 1,2m of sea-level rise and possibly 3m by the end of the century. A third of the world’s major cities are on the coast, not to mention its power plants, ports, navy bases, farmlands, fisheries, river deltas and rice-paddy empires, and even those above 3m will flood much more easily, and much more regularly if the water gets that high. At least 600 million people live within 10m of sea level today.’

And that’s a fraction of the bad news. I haven’t included the mass extinction events occurring. The massive loss of insects (and no, it’s not good news that there are fewer wasps and bees hovering around your barbecue parties); the effects of climate change on disease and so much else.

It is your children and mine who will live through what is predicted and some of it can’t be avoided even if we reached zero carbon emissions tomorrow. A minimum of 2 degrees increase in global temperature is literally baked in already. And that does not just mean that summer will be 2 degrees warmer. It causes increases in global sea levels, decreases in food production, increases in human diseases and death rates, further habitat loss and extinctions of species.

The media don’t report the horrible truth because if people knew what was coming they may rebel against the governments and multinationals that are destroying the planet for short term economic gain.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 21/04/2019 10:02

And for the posters worrying about public transport disruption - well being disruptive is the whole point isn't it 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Scientists have clearly told governments that we only have 12 years to turn things round. To save the future of our children's generation. Governments are not acting fast enough. The English government continues to ignore the facts and bang on about Brexit etc...

It's about getting people to take this seriously. Are you taking it seriously?
If the planet becomes to hot for us to live on it - then your work / shopping trip / tourist sightseeing won't really matter will it? What's confusing? Hmm

nakedscientist · 21/04/2019 10:08

83%

But I'm going to work harder of " stuff" and not buying it.

UnrelentingFruitScoffer · 21/04/2019 10:15

Basically, our government has ignored the climate change issue for a long, long time. They’ve expressed concern and tinkered at the edges. It was easy to do that because it is a slow thing.

Now it’s suddenly become quite urgent. And people are worried and angry. Something needs to be done and done quickly. That’s why XR has come about.

Oliversmumsarmy · 21/04/2019 10:26

The problem these protesters have is they have blocked the same area as loads of other protests and as someone who uses that area regularly it just all merges into one.

It becomes another protest to be avoided.

No one is really interested people just want to get on with things and go about their business.

They would have been far more affective if they had several groups round the country doing something positive in areas that don’t get protests

In London a lot of people just think not another protest and the message is lost.

Parker231 · 21/04/2019 10:40

Because of the disruption this week I’ve had to get Uber’s as the roads were blocked that I would normally walk down. The amount of rubbish, including single use plastic bottles the protestors have left in the streets is disgusting.

Gronky · 21/04/2019 10:45

I can't really get on board with any 'environmentalists' who oppose nuclear power. We would have incredibly reliable, low waste nuclear power stations if the last 50 years had been devoted to decent R&D instead of bending the knee to the fearmongers, which limited us to designs created for plutonium production instead of optimum civilian energy generation.

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