To be annoyed at how holiday club have handled this

[Elamaya]

DD is at a holiday club every day this week. She’s been many times before and always loved it. This time she’s with two good friends so was enjoying it even more. When I dropped her off on Wednesday the manager told me all was going well. On Wednesday afternoon DD came home in tears because she’d been ‘accused’ of being unkind to another girl who as a result had left the club and wasn’t coming back. Now I know no-one believes their child is a bully or unkind, but I know my DD. She often comes home from school upset because she thinks she might have upset someone when actually she hasn’t. She’s super sensitive and actually very kind, particularly with younger kids. She couldn’t sleep that night because she was so upset at being falsely accused. She said she barely knew who the girl was and didn’t think she’d actually talked to her at all.

I went in with her the next day (Thursday) to speak to the manager, who’s first response when she saw me was ‘oh here we go’! Not sure what that means but sounds like she was expecting trouble. Anyway, I asked what had happened and she told me it was a nasty comment made to the girl by my daughter or one of her friends, on the Monday. Then the girl came back on the Tuesday and it was repeated. The manager told me she believed the girl because she’d been coming for a number of years and wouldn’t lie about this. She told me she hadn’t ‘accused’ my daughter but simply asked my daughter some questions about it but that she wasn’t satisfied with the response because all the girls had denied any knowledge. She said it couldn’t be anyone else as this girl has specifically named my daughter’s group of friends. I suggested that perhaps my daughter genuinely has no knowledge. Perhaps they were guilty of a bit of cliquiness as they are good friends and genuinely pleased to see each other after a week apart. My thinking was that it was a possibility that they might have been inadvertently leaving the girl out but not actually been unkind - none of the girls can remember speaking to her in the two days so that seems like a possibility - but the manager was adamant that it had been said.

I left her there yesterday thinking it would now be left as the manager understood that my daughter was sensitive and had been upset by the situation. She did at least acknowledge that she didn’t actually know who was meant to have made the comments. However last night DD came home distraught again. They’d been told to go home and think about how upset they’ve made this girl. How she’d been subjected to bullying and told again by manager that she totally trusts this girl - thus implying that she doesn’t trust these girls.

So anyway I’m now pretty cross and can’t sleep myself! Obviously I feel bad that the girl who left is upset but now there are 4 girls who are upset and all don’t want to go back to this camp - although the last day is today so they are meant to be going. I just think it’s quite possible the girl did make it up, perhaps she just didn’t want to go and made it up so she could stay home - also she was there with a cousin, perhaps that’s who she didn’t want to spend time with and blamed it on the girls so as not to get into trouble with her cousin. There are many explantations I can think of so just seems wrong to me that the manager has started from the pint of view that she is telling the truth and that my daughter or at least one of her friends is lying. AIBU or should I tell the manager I’m annoyed at how this has been handled?

Isn't the issue about how the Club handled the issue (badly) rather than what the issue was? We don't know what happened between the girls. The issue is that the responsible staff member blamed one set of girls, made a martyr of another girl and was rude to a parent instead of actually dealing with the issue properly (finding out what happened and addressing any bad behaviour on either part, asking for apologies and resolving the issue allowing all girls to stay comfortably). The leader is incompetent and I'd complain OP.

just seems wrong to me that the manager has started from the pint of view that she is telling the truth and that my daughter or at least one of her friends is lying.

So if it were your DD would you be happy if the manager came from the angle that she is lying?

So if it were your DD would you be happy if the manager came from the angle that she is lying

Oh FFS. There is more than one position and its opposite. The manager, if they had any talent or skill in working with young people at all, should have tried to find out what happened and to have resolved the situation. That's their JOB after all.

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine OP. Generally sensitive to others and beats herself up if people are upset. Like you, I don’t believe DD would intentionally pick on another child, she doesn’t have an unkind bone in her body and calls it out when she sees it in others. She isn’t easily led and wouldn’t get involved to fit in.

That said, there have been a couple of times when she has told me of things that have happened and what she’s done and I’ve had to point out that to someone else, that might come across as being unkind. She’s 9 and is still learning the nuances of things and that tact is important. E.g Her “best friend” is a bit hot and cold. DD will make an arrangement with another friend then BFF says she wants to sit with her and DD will ask the other friend if she can change. Those times, when it’s been pointed out to her, she gets really upset she might have really upset the other girl and just because they said it was OK, doesn’t mean they aren’t upset. I can totally see a situation where something like this has happened and an adult needs to get involved.

I’d fully accept something happened, talk to DD about whether she thinks she did the right thing and have her reflect on her behaviour. But if the following day there was another telling off about it, I’d be furious. That’s not on. If they wanted to ensure the message got across then the thing to do would be to do a general role play or group discussion about it. Singling them out a second time is not acceptable. None of what happened has helped the girl who felt attacked in the first place.

What is telling here, is that the other girls have denied it. Because of how your DD is, she’s said “oh, did we do something wrong? Could we have hurt this girl? We’re we unkind?” That says to me that if something has happened it certainly wasn’t intentional on her part. As a parent of this age group, that’s about the best we can hope for and IMO is a good indication that your DD didn’t set out to bully this girl.

I agree with others who have said that chatting to her about looking at how she behaved, then learning to let it go if she genuinely feels she doesn’t have anything more to learn from it.

Definitely go to the next level of management. Even if these girls were bullying, it has not been dealt with effectively.

You sound pretty dismissive that your daughter could ever do such a thing. Trust me when with a group of other friends-she could
(And others)

This always baffles me. Sure, there are people who in the face of solid evidence refuse to believe their children misbehave. But, not every child will be a bully, not every child is badly behaved and actually, most parents do know their children pretty well and know what they are capable of. We do our children a huge disservice if we automatically assume they are all little shits and will bully another at any given opportunity. If you genuinely believe your children are capable of behaving so badly, why aren’t you doing something about it instead of telling everyone else they don’t know their children and they will definitely be bullies?

YetAnotherSpartacus

Oh FFS. There is more than one position and its opposite.

Oh FFS, yourself, I am pointing out that the OP wouldn't like it if her DD had come home crying due to "bullying" and the holiday club had said that she was lying.

And anyone that has dealt with bullying will tell you that it more often than not takes more than a day to sort out.

Oh FFS, yourself, I am pointing out that the OP wouldn't like it if her DD had come home crying due to "bullying" and the holiday club had said that she was lying

Where did the OP say that the other girl was lying? The OP is (rightly) concerned that the leader of the club jumped to the conclusion that some girls were bullies without investigating the situation. And instances of bullying and alleged bullying happen constantly in schools and other organisations. It may take a while or not a while to find out what happened. But the issue is that such leaders need to try and they also need to diffuse the situation, not blame one group without evidence and then be rude to the parents!

The OP is (rightly) concerned that the leader of the club jumped to the conclusion that some girls were bullies without investigating the situation.

But this isn't what happened, the leader asked the girls what happened. The OP isn't happy about the outcome.

The truth is that we weren't there and will never know the truth.

Honestly on the fact she she something like "oh here we go" I would have raised a compliant. She clearly has some sort of issue with your daughter.

As for you daughter, I would explain that words and actions have consequences so if she did say something then she can see how the ripple has been extended and more people have been hurt and equally if she didn't how one lie can spread ripples and that it is impossible to control once things have been said.

I think there is a good chance your girls have been glued together and therefore this other girl felt excluded, I don't think that necessarily your daughter or her friends fault and really the manager or workers should have Been better at making sure no one was excluded. Even if something was said, it seems like they didn't do anything to sort this, if she was directly accusing then surely he/she should have said them down all together and had a chat.

Honestly I just think the whole thing has been horribly handled by the club and they are just trying to pass accountability over to your daughter and bullying them in the process. I would keep them home today and write a formal letter of compliant about the management of this club and they affect of the actions of the manager.

Yes your daughter could have done it, but if that's the case they should have been sat down and faced their accusers, either way it's been handled wrongly. That doesn't negate your the responsibility of the girls to not exclude people, but surly that should have been discussed with them.

but if that's the case they should have been sat down and faced their accusers,

Now that would be a spectacularly poor way to deal with this.

Thanks all - this has given me lots of food for thought - I did send her this morning as she wanted to go. She also wrote a letter to the manager setting out that she felt bad for the girl but also explaining what it felt like for her to feel wrongly accused. She felt better after getting it out in a letter. I’m not sure if I want to bother with raising a proper complaint or not about how this has been handled. I don’t feel the place is particularly professionally run, but it has been lots of fun for my DD in the past. Will see how things go today.

The ‘here we go’ comment does suggest that you have form for this type of behaviour.

What do you hope to achieve by encouraging your dd to write a note to the manager protesting her complete innocence when you don't know for a fact this is the case? You have already told the manager your dd couldn't have possibly done anything wrong. The club haven't handled well, but you are blowing it out of all proportion.

@BoneyBackJefferson - yeah that didn't come across quite what I meant. I meant mediation of some sort. For both sides to have had their chance to hear what each other thought. I didn't quite mean it as I said it and appreciate that wouldn't have helped, but I often thinks with children it's good for both parties to hear their perspectives and understand the impact of their behaviour and it helps iron out any lies if that's the case.

@BrokenWing if the DD is being falsely accused, then I think this is important for her to do. She needs to feel she can stand up for herself, not roll over with false allegations. Also is hard when you're any age to find the words you want to say in person - she obviously has more time to think about it in a letter. It will also hopefully give some food for thought for the manager. Even if nothing more comes off this, hopefully it will help DD put this awful experience behind her.

ThinkThatsSomeBadHatHarry I think you are being deliberately provocative that the manager saying ‘oh hear we go’ suggests I have form. My DD has been going there for a number of years and never had a single problem or cross word. She’s always loved it there which is why she chose to go back and recommended it to her friends - the letter was her idea as she thought it would make her feel better - she was so distraught the last two nights about it all

not every child will be a bully, not every child is badly behaved and actually,

Not every child is a bully or badly behaved but almost every child is sometimes badly behaved and sometimes is capable of hurting another child's feelings. I do think it's naive to think it's impossible your child was part of a group who left a girl out and stood by while something unkind was said. If you think children are either bullies or not or badly behaved or not of course you won't ever consider that your child might have done something wrong. I'm not saying OP's DD is necessarily in the wrong but it's a good idea to keep an open mind that she might have been swept along with a slightly mean dynamic.

The ‘here we go’ comment does suggest that you have form for this type of behaviour.

Or it could suggest that the manager had had complaints from other parents about her handling of this situation.

Or it could have been that as far as stuff were concerned it was handled but the OP's DD wouldnt let it go all day. That seems to me most likely

I would question the way the Manager handled this as it's unclear what happened. This perhaps should be a joint letter from you and the other parents. It wasn't dealt with in a way that the dcs knew what they had done but they appeared to be bullied.

Hope your dd is just enjoying her Easter now.

Agree with what curiousaboutsamphire said.

Way too much drama.
Kids mess up.
Apologise. Move on.