To be annoyed at how holiday club have handled this

[Elamaya]

DD is at a holiday club every day this week. She’s been many times before and always loved it. This time she’s with two good friends so was enjoying it even more. When I dropped her off on Wednesday the manager told me all was going well. On Wednesday afternoon DD came home in tears because she’d been ‘accused’ of being unkind to another girl who as a result had left the club and wasn’t coming back. Now I know no-one believes their child is a bully or unkind, but I know my DD. She often comes home from school upset because she thinks she might have upset someone when actually she hasn’t. She’s super sensitive and actually very kind, particularly with younger kids. She couldn’t sleep that night because she was so upset at being falsely accused. She said she barely knew who the girl was and didn’t think she’d actually talked to her at all.

I went in with her the next day (Thursday) to speak to the manager, who’s first response when she saw me was ‘oh here we go’! Not sure what that means but sounds like she was expecting trouble. Anyway, I asked what had happened and she told me it was a nasty comment made to the girl by my daughter or one of her friends, on the Monday. Then the girl came back on the Tuesday and it was repeated. The manager told me she believed the girl because she’d been coming for a number of years and wouldn’t lie about this. She told me she hadn’t ‘accused’ my daughter but simply asked my daughter some questions about it but that she wasn’t satisfied with the response because all the girls had denied any knowledge. She said it couldn’t be anyone else as this girl has specifically named my daughter’s group of friends. I suggested that perhaps my daughter genuinely has no knowledge. Perhaps they were guilty of a bit of cliquiness as they are good friends and genuinely pleased to see each other after a week apart. My thinking was that it was a possibility that they might have been inadvertently leaving the girl out but not actually been unkind - none of the girls can remember speaking to her in the two days so that seems like a possibility - but the manager was adamant that it had been said.

I left her there yesterday thinking it would now be left as the manager understood that my daughter was sensitive and had been upset by the situation. She did at least acknowledge that she didn’t actually know who was meant to have made the comments. However last night DD came home distraught again. They’d been told to go home and think about how upset they’ve made this girl. How she’d been subjected to bullying and told again by manager that she totally trusts this girl - thus implying that she doesn’t trust these girls.

So anyway I’m now pretty cross and can’t sleep myself! Obviously I feel bad that the girl who left is upset but now there are 4 girls who are upset and all don’t want to go back to this camp - although the last day is today so they are meant to be going. I just think it’s quite possible the girl did make it up, perhaps she just didn’t want to go and made it up so she could stay home - also she was there with a cousin, perhaps that’s who she didn’t want to spend time with and blamed it on the girls so as not to get into trouble with her cousin. There are many explantations I can think of so just seems wrong to me that the manager has started from the pint of view that she is telling the truth and that my daughter or at least one of her friends is lying. AIBU or should I tell the manager I’m annoyed at how this has been handled?

Now I know no-one believes their child is a bully or unkind

It isn't black and white that your child is either a bully or an angel.

There are all shades of grey in the middle and children make mistakes sometimes, label them as an angel and is a lot for them to live up to. May she didn't stay up all night because she was falsely accused, maybe something did happen, one of her group said something unkind because the other girl was hanging around them and they wanted to be just them and she's awake wrestling with the guilt that it went so far the other child dudnt come back?

Realistically you'll probably never know. As someone said above pick your battles and take your daughter off that pedestal which is a difficult place to be as a child.

Whether your daughter did anything or not this place sounds badly managed and unprofessional and tbh it sounds like the manager is bullying your daughter and her friends!

Don't go back today and find somewhere else for next holidays.

Many kind and lovely girls occasionally say mean and unkind things. They are usually distraught afterwards because they recognise it was unpleasant and ate ashamed. It could be that it was your dd or one of her friends. Your best way of dealing with this is not to try and prove it wasn't your dd but to be clear that you hope it wasn't her or one of her friends and remind her to be very aware of other people's feelings. Then drop it. The manager probably wasn't very professional in saying here we go but she it is fairly typical that patents come in immediately that their child has been told off or even asked questions about an incident and quite often they go in to say that their child never lies or is never unkind and unfortunately all children can and do lie and be unkind just like all adults. It doesn't mean your dd is not a lovely girl.

Teach resilience and let it go? Is this the new way of colluding with abuse, it used to be that adversity is character forming and blame the victim.
This is a bad manager, make a complaint. They should have a bullying policy. If this girl has been ill treated it should be dealt with properly.

The manager has handled it very badly. I would be particularly furious at the "here we go" comment. If the girl hasn't even said who made the comment it seems outrageous that your DD has been accused in the first place.
It is possible that the girl is lying because she doesn't want to go to holiday club anymore. I know that the manager says that she "knows" her because she has been going there regularly over the years but children change. I wonder if teacher at her school would just take her word for it.

Well you tried but the manager sounds incapable of sorting out this ‘incident’ in a satisfactory way and has probably made things so much worse.
You don’t say how old your daughter is but I imagine around 10 or 11. At this age girls can lack confidence and worry about friendship groups and who is popular and who their friends are.
It happened to my daughter when she was in year 6. She was probably the youngest in a small class and got along with everyone, always wanting everyone to be happy and friendly, and sensitive to others. She came home quite upset one day. Apparently one girl had gone crying to the teacher after a PE lesson complaining that a few others had been laughing at her when it was her turn to ‘show’ a move. My daughter told me that wasn’t the case. They had been sitting on the bench having a giggle together and the girl had assumed they were laughing at her which was not the case. The said girl was particularly insecure but certainly not disliked.
I popped in to have a quiet word with the head. He agreed with me that girls of that age can be over sensitive and hormonal, about to go through puberty. He was very understanding since he knew the children well and the incident was dismissed.
That was the end of it and there were no repercussions. They all continued to be friends.
Sometimes I think if incidents such as the one with your daughter are handled badly, it can make things worse both now and in the future.

Apologies if you've answered this already, OP, but what is your DD supposed to have said, the actual word?

I’m intrigued by the "here we go" comment.

You say your DD has been to this club many times before? Has it always been this same manager? Have you had reason to speak to her before now? It just seems like such an unprofessional, over familiar thing to say to a fee-paying parent.

Is there a history?

Constructive action? Have a look at the organisation's bullying policy and see what steps it says it should take in such an event.

Then, acknowledging that your DD and her friends could be in the wrong, point out how the matter should have been handled according to their own policy

Send that letter to anyone in the orgnisation you can find that would have input into the policies and don't be brushed off. Tell them that you are most displeased that one girl has gone home upset and another group have been dealt with shabbily, that you were met with immediate hostility, etc etc. That is NOT the environment that you thought you were sending your daughter into and they need to consider training / reinforcing their polciies with front line staff.

And keep Ofsted in the back of your mind if they don't reply appropriately!

Seriously? Any child can cause upset given the wrong set of circumstances, either deliberately by saying something they don't deem to be offensive but the other person does. You're doing your child no favours by believing she could never upset another child. Its carte Blanche for her to be bitchy it knowing full well you would never believe anyone who told you otherwise.

That said, your DD reaction is disproportionate, not helpful and shows little empathy for the child who was upset. Mine would have had "well what ever happened the other child was upset we need to be careful of other peoples feelings. But thats a line drawn under it time to more on" if it was raised again "let it go". I certainly wouldn't have been taking to the manager the next day, my childs response would have been my responsibility to deal with as far as i was concerned.

The oh here we go was unprofessional. But i can see a set if circumstances under which it would have happened.

I think it's unlikely the other little girl completely made up the unkind comment and stopped coming to holiday club for no reason so it does seem likely that your DD and/or her group of friends were unkind to the girl.

The manager does sound very rude saying "oh here we go". To be honest though you can't expect as much from a holiday club as you can expect from a school. The manager obviously feels your DD and her group were excluding the girl and being a bit mean and that's the road she's gone down. I think I would be talking to my DD and encourage her to think if she might have actually done something unkind to this girl, even unintentionally and then I'd encourage enough resilience to get past the accusation if it is unfair.

I would also add to my child if they are seen to be excluding

another child and then that child accuses them of bullying, how is it going to look to a teacher. Whether it is or it isn't how you are seen to be will lead the people around you to make assumptions rightly or wrongly.

Similarly if it wasnt DD but you get mixed up with kids who arent very nice you get judged by the company you keep.

Both important life lessons your child could have had from you over this.....

Instead they had someone told you off, clearly it was unjustified, im going to make a complaint. I wonder why the assistant said "oh here we go"...

the ‘my child would never’ brigade are always in for a shock at high school.

Just don't take her again. Think you’re fretting over nowt tbh.
Clearly handled badly but also, something must have happened. One of them has said something, and no doubt the mothers of your daughter’s friends also are adament that it wasn't their daughter.

"You know you didn't so that's all that matters really. Don't worry about it as you know you didn't say those things. Ignore it."

But is also ask if she thinks the girl might be upset because she wanted to play with them and if so, could she think about how she would feel in that situation and if she could perhaps include others in future"

Personally i'd not send her in if I didn't have to as its gone on for too long now.

For those saying its unlikely she wouldd have made it up .. reality check needed.. girls do make stuff up. My dd was accused of bullying a girl she barely spoke to. The girl told the guide leader she wasnt going to a particular school becase my dd bullied her. The real reason was another girl but she knew if she accused that girl there would be hell to pay.. my dd name was dragged through the mud. All the girls knew it wasnt my dd but no one would come forward as they were all scared of the real bully.

A complete tangent, but if you are in the UK, I’m impressed that a holiday club is open today, on a Bank Holiday.

There are potentially 4 upset children here, and it appears to have been badly handled. I wouldn’t use the setting again.

The "here we go" comment is odd and unprofessional, but is it really the result of absolutely no negative interaction with her previously?

Your daughter sounds lovely, but I think something must have gone on for the other girl to react as she did.
It's not the end of the world though, and time to be resilient and move on.

In these situations I always ask my daughters if there is anything they would have done differently, if it happened again. Mostly they reflect and say 'yeah, ok, I might have done X', even if they had claimed total innocence before! I have no doubt that you've already talked it all through with her though.

Missingstreetlife... Who is the victim we are blaming by saying let it go? It's not the little girl who had a nasty comment made to her by someone nor the OPs little girl for which there have been no actual consequences... Overreacting much?

The facts are (1) no one knows what actually happened (2) different children are giving different accounts (3) some of these children are upset.

There's no abuse to call out and nothing else to be done unless you want to be THAT person that just can't let it go and bangs on and on about how it must be everyone else but YOUR offspring.

Colluding in abuse ffs. Madness.

So... the other girl, who made the allegation, then left the holiday club? Didn't return? Yet, on the second day she wasn't there (or the first day she wasn't there?), after you had approached the woman in charge/who upset your daughter about the situation, in an effort to get to the bottom of what had happened... the woman repeatedly hounded your daughter and her friends about their behaviour towards the child who had left the club?

An adult took it upon herself to constantly harangue children about behaviour which had (a) been dealt with and (b) challenged by at least one parent.

An adult made at least one child miserable by harping on about behaviour that the children are adamant didn't happen. An adult berated children about how they're not worthy of being listened to/believed about a situation that, presumably, the adult has no actual knowledge of, just an allegation and, perhaps, hearsay.

Yes; it was handled badly.
Yes; the adult is bullying children.
Yes; you need to take it further and/or vote with your feet and don't place your child back into the club if the woman is responsible for her welfare.
No; you're not being unreasonable to be upset about this, in the slightest.

What do your daughter's friends parents have to say about this? Can you approach whoever is in charge of this woman together, because if an adult who is managing a holiday club for children is behaving as though she's actually a child (and a mean one at that) herself... it needs to be addressed. Because otherwise your daughter and her friends - who you admit can be a little cliquey - are going to end up with a reputation for being bullies who lie...

This is tricky and the reality is that you will probably never know exactly who said what to whom. You will have to accept that lack of knowledge.

I would say your DD has not been harangued by the club leader. She and her friends have been spoken to...which they obviously did not enjoy or like. It doesn't sound to me that anything untoward or unprofessional occurred in their dealing with the girls.

Looking at it this way, I would say that it is time to move on from this and actually there is a lesson to be learned here. Often situations are not entirely clear and in life, sometimes we all get treated a little unfairly....and realising that happens and how to handle it, is one of life's lessons. This isn't the same as accept abuse and call it resilience building at all - because you do have to be able to distinguish between what might be a minor unfairness and something more serious. And here, to me, this looks at worse like a minor unfairness. So I'd be talking to DD about how these kind of things happen and how we respond when this happens....with honesty and dignity and courage. I'd be talking about how we don't blow things out of all proportion and generate a sense of total outrage when one isn't needed and understand how these kind of things can happen. I'd also talk about how important it is to be inclusive and be aware of how sensitive people can be and easily misconstrued comments can be - that's something everyone needs to learn too.

I'd speak to DD about returning for the last day and perhaps give her a choice - to go in and hold her head high, or to not go if she really doesn't want to. I don't think I'd be making a complaint, but if I felt things had been handled poorly I might just put something in writing to say I was uncomfortable with the way things had been handled - acknowledging that it is difficult to know exactly what happened, reAiterating what DD had said and how she had come home feeling - without making a specific complaint. To be honest, I probably wouldn't do this, but I can see you might want to.

I would try to get beyond feeling outraged by this though. I think too many people feel outraged by things that don't warrant it and teach their children to feel like this too....and it doesn't help anyone.

I’m getting a bit sick of the focus on resilience these days. I think it can go too far. At what point do you end up being a total pushover instead.
There has to be some balance.
Yes, in the sense of the ‘incident’ that occurred, nothing further can be done, but the club should be held accountable for the treatment of the children and the way they initially investigated it, and if appropriate, the manager could apologise for her behaviour if she has no proof who said what.

No one is blaming your daughter from what I can tell? What I'm reading is someone in your DD's friendship group said something mean to the other girl on Monday. Then on Tuesday it was repeated.

Did this other girl try to interact with your DD's group and get ignored? FWIW intentionally leaving someone out IS being unkind. If that is what happened then that is a type of bullying.

Whatever your DD's intentions were or were not, this other girl was obviously upset enough to not come back. I dont see what the manager did wrong by asking the girls to go home and reflect on how their actions (or lack of) might have impacted on the other girl.

I too think this was badly handled ..it should have been sorted and dealt with and left..not being brought up again the following day.Children do fall out and can be mean,they are growing and testing boundaries all the time and my daughter is delightful but I have seen her with her friends and she can be a completely different child to the one I know..it happens...I would suggest the problem won;t go away with the managers attitude but as to what you can do I have no idea.

Agree with others that managers comment when you went to see her would have put me off. I would pull your daughter out. It sounds like perhaps one of the friends made the comment and collective punishment is being employed. Your daughter may not have any knowledge of what happened or she might? but you cannot be sure as it seems that it has been handled very badly either way. It sounds as though they haven't worked with all the girls to try and resolve it and that is their bad managemnt