To think tenants aren't aware of the effect the section 21 ban will have?

[Treacletoots]

Another win for tenants... No more no fault evictions. Or is it a case of be careful what you wish for?

An unintended consequence of this will likely be more section 8 notices if a landlord needs to remove a tenant. Section 8 notices usually are accompanied by a CCJ if they are successful and due to rent arrears. Currently most landlords use section 21 to save the hassle of court and the tenant doesnt get a CCJ.

Good landlords simply don't evict good tenants for no reason. It doesn't make sense. With the tenant fee bans it makes even less sense to remove tenants and then have to fork out again to refresh the property, re reference new tenants, advertise etc.

In 90%of cases tenancies are ended by the tenant and in only 2% are they revenge evictions. Landlords will be more worried than ever to let to higher risk tenants so may just sell up, losing houses from the rental market. Local authorities don't have enough housing to re home people and so this will likely cause more homeless.

Can nobody else see that banning section 21 will likely lead to more suffering, not less!

It's passive income for my landlord - all they do when I mention repair issues is sympathise and promise to sort it out later.

Later still hasn't arrived yet, and it's been five years, but I'm "DSS" so can't rent elsewhere.

I don’t think it’s proposed to end all evictions though- I would doubt it but detailed proposals not out yet. I would imagine we would end up to a similar system to the Scottish system which still allows eviction if selling or want to move in.

I do agree though that it will lead to tenancy applications being more carefully scrutinised. Also I would be more keen to get insurance against non-payers which means they need to pass an affordability check.

As for the bonkers suggestion that landlords shouldn’t be able to pick their tenants, eh? Why on earth not. And it’s a business, why shouldn’t someone run a business or profit from investing in one? As long as they operate within the law, I don’t see the issue.

If someone owes rent they’re going to end up with a CCJ irrespective of what means of eviction is used.

Very untrue. The vast majority of people, who stop paying rent or trash a house are served a S21 and are not prosecuted. I hope TM is planning to employ extra court staff to deal with this. Should be interesting.

Tbh I don’t think lls are shitting themselves as a pp said. The proposal is very different to the former protected tenancies.

CripsSandwiches
The 3 - 9 system has many faults though. It’s very costly for the tenant to hand their notice in within the first 3 years. AST’s were devised specifically to avoid this problem. Dh and I left Belgium within 3 years of taking a lease. The penalty for leaving early was to pay an additional 3 months rent. So it only works well for the long term tenant, not those on short term contracts or moving to the area hoping to buy once settled.

Don't section 21s also get used when people haven't paid their rent? (My sole knowledge of this is the slum landlords, nightmare tenants programme!!)

Don't section 21s also get used when people haven't paid their rent? (My sole knowledge of this is the slum landlords, nightmare tenants programme!!)

The UK rental housing market currently is made up of 33% accidental landlords.

No such thing as an accidental landlord

Don't section 21s also get used when people haven't paid their rent?

They can do - a landlord can issue a section 21 regardless of whether there are rent arrears or not. Often landlords use section 21 even where rent is owing because it’s just simpler. They won’t get their arrests back though.

If this section 21 ban becomes law then landlords won’t be able to use section 21 to evict tenants who are poor payers and will have to make an issue of the rent arrears by using section 8.

A landlord's right to end a tenancy due to selling the house or moving in themselves will transfer from the section 21 to section 8.

I don't see what's changed, a landlord can just pretend they're moving in/selling up and serve a section 8 under the new rules and get tenants out in 2 months.

Just wondering what period of notice the tenant will have to give? Or will nothing change for them?

A landlord's right to end a tenancy due to selling the house or moving in themselves will transfer from the section 21 to section 8.

Got a link?

Whaa whaa whaa

Sell your multi houses and stop whining. You were not forced into being a landlord.

Ministers have said they will amend the section eight process to allow it to be used by landlords if they want to sell the property or move back in themselves

@Bisset

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/15/short-notice-evictions-face-axe-in-tenant-rights-victory

Actually all those that used their properties as a holiday home in the year before renting can issue a section 8 notice and get the tenants out to return it to a holiday home.

Won’t landlords rent the place out as a holiday home before renting to longer term tenants then if they want rid of the tenants they just issue a section 8 notice because they want it to return to bring a holiday home.

According to the Guardian article
Ministers have said they will amend the section eight process to allow it to be used by landlords if they want to sell the property or move back in themselves. Unlike section 21, tenants can challenge section eight evictions in court.
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/15/short-notice-evictions-face-axe-in-tenant-rights-victory

Making evictions more stringent will hopefully reduce the number of "revenge evictions" from less serious landlords
The most recent research by Citizens Advice suggested that tenants who made a formal complaint about their landlord or the state of their rented home had a 46% chance of being issued with a section 21 eviction notice in the following six months.

We rent out a flat. We had horrific tenants a few years ago who defaulted on the rent and were basically fraudsters. When we realised we served section 21. We wanted them out without a fight tbh and thankfully they went (realised we were on to them). If we’d had to go through a more protracted process it would’ve upped the stress for us even more.

Thank you Harrys

So to sum up.

Less availability of houses due to landlords selling up or those who don't being more in demand and can be more picky.
More tenants who dont pay their rent receiving ccjs and debt as a result of lls having to use section 8 instead of a 21 which allowed a no fault and no expectation to pay your debt, and onwards won't be able to rent elsewhere because a ccj will fail all reference checks.
A minority of revenge evictions could however be stopped. Although in reality, the kind of landlord who would do this probably would evict you by hook or by crook in any event.

Sounds like a win to the landlords IMHO.

I pray my tenants stay, they're brilliant. However, when I come to retire, I will probably want to sell to amalgamate finances and move to a small country cottage with some money so I can live. I don't want to rely on the State to support me nor will the lump sum from my projected pension last long. As it's my property, I should be able to do so.

How can a ll sell without causing legal issues to themselves or their tenants under this new scheme? I certainly don't want them to have a CCJ like a pp mentioned.

I'm a landlord. Not accidental, and I have more than one property. I have had a few problems with tenants doing damage or late paying but I have never evicted anyone. I am glad for this change. It is a position of privilege to be a landlord and should not be abused. Renters should feel secure about where they are living so I welcome any reasonable protection for them.

the kind of landlord who would do this probably would evict you by hook or by crook in any event.

Exactly. I don't see how it helps tenants. But maybe someone brighter than me can explain it!

Does anyone on this forum have suggestions as to how decent landlords should evict such tenants if S21 is no longer an option?

There needs to be an overhaul of Section 8, and there needs to be a huge government investment in social housing.

Landlords should be able to evict tenants much more quickly in cases where the tenant is causing significant damage or harm.

The problem here is that tenants are advised to stay put and await eviction, as many councils won't re-home a tenant who has voluntarily left their home - and, sometimes, acting on a section 21 and leaving when notice is served, counts as having 'voluntarily left'.

Landlords will be more worried than ever to let to higher risk tenants so may just sell up, losing houses from the rental market.

So many landlords advising that these houses are going to be sold and list from the rental market - who is going to purchase these ex rentals?

There needs to be an overhaul of Section 8, and there needs to be a huge government investment in social housing.

Why do you think a Tory government is reforming the rental laws..? To avoid investment in social housing

@harrysowl, I can explain how it might have helped someone like me? I've always rented. Most of my LL have been pretty good. I believe all of them thought and believed they were very good LL. But, currently, there's nothing to stop a LL saying 'well, I rented my flat to a married couple, and now you've had a baby, and I worry that will add to my bills, so I don't feel comfortable with you staying any more'. As the law stands, there is nothing at all wrong with a LL saying that, and tenants must expect it. Likewise, if a tenant complains about something that is not working (say, a malfunctioning boiler), the LL is well within their rights to ask that tenant to leave. They can then find another tenant. One of my LL did this. He didn't believe the issues with the boiler were serious, and he thought we were being a pain. Our Christmas card from the family next door mentioned that the entire kitchen of his house was flooded with hot water a few weeks after we moved out, so I'm quite sure we were right -but from the LL's point of view, we were problem tenants whinging about something he thought was ok.

If this change went through, I think the major shift would not be with bad LL or bad tenants. It would be with people like my landlords, who've always meant well but who have no incentive to reconsider what they're doing.

I know, ivy, and it makes me sad. But I was responding to the question about what needs to happen, not what I believe will happen.