Climate change activists shooting themselves in the foot?

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

I had sympathy with the both the cause and actions (though not the vandalism) until today. They are now paralysing the public transport system. Isn’t the main thrust of encouraging better habits for climate change , getting people out of their cars and onto public transport.
Fact 1: people need to work
Fact 2 : most need to commute , short journeys or long.
Fact 3: protests are to promote awareness and get the people on your side.

THIS WON’T !

The arguments about forcing people to use their cars are silly. The effect and impact of climate change if it isn't halted immediately will have a much more severe effect on the planet than some people using their cars more for a week or so!

Making people late for vital medical appointments doesn't help. We are now waiting to see if they will still see mum today as we are so late. Left 2.5 hours to do a 45 minute journey. I'm mad as it's not anyone in power they have disrupted, its normal working people who do their best.

But this is the whole point. The climate change issue has gone beyond asking individuals to use their cars less and recycle more. We need major huge changes at government level targeted at the big companies. Governments don’t want to do this because that makes them unpopular with the rich CEOs and people who give them money and keep their businesses in the country. Governments who don’t think beyond the next election and their immediate popularity. It’s not about one day of more fossil fuel emissions because people are having to take taxis it’s about causing inconvenience and disruption to force the government into making necessary changes that they don’t want to make. Those who disagree with the way Extinction Rebellion are handling this, how would you do it? Genuine question!

I live in London and yesterday, having nothing else better to do, went up to Waterloo Bridge to have nosey. I ended up feeling pretty contradicted: the protesters’ cause is hugely important but I found them pretty objectionable. Why is it that no demonstration can be made without silly hats, costumes and slogans? Why is it necessary to have a skateboard ramp? If this is the single most important and pressing issue for humanity, why the carnival, festival atmosphere? And I hated the depressing, unnecessary mess they had made of the area.

Later, the police began to politely arrest the protesters one-by-one, leading them gently out of the crowd, or, six coppers to each floppy body, carrying them carefully away. It was hard to believe that if they had been rather less middle class - and white - that they would have treated as delicately.

ANd no, lots of small actions by lots of people are not enough to solve this problem. So what will? Lepping round carrying placards hasn't done much.

Individuals calling for smaller actions, taking indiviual actions has, measurably so (if I can find the relevant bar chart I will post it, unless someone else remembers it!!)

The reality is we need both (assuming marchers will tidy up after themselves). We all need to realitically assess our needs and wants and to do what we can.

My action is based on not buying shit in plastic, scented toiletries, cleaning fluids and all the convenience products so forward on shelves. It is what I can do every day of my life! Others will be able to do more, others less. But it will all make a difference.

Boycotts - they work sometimes. But seeing as Nestle is still in business, and Mondelez and Monsanto that seems to be too much troiuble or most people.

Maybe a march, organised and plastered all over social media is the very best this generation of protestors can see themselves being able to do. It would reflect the changes in how people find value in all sorts of things.

Curious do you genuinely not understand that things have gone beyond individual carbon footprints or are you just being difficult? The vast majority of carbon emissions are caused by the huge multinational corporations, not individual people

Sorry for the spelling errors - I haven't got any heating on and my fingers are cold

(That is actually true, maybe I should have added keeping the heating on low in my smug list!)

What is the point of making a small polite difference if the difference is not enough? And it isn’t.

Personal actions are not enough. We need government and business action. We probably also need major changes to society and the economy which is why they are scared

Curious do you genuinely not understand that things have gone beyond individual carbon footprints or are you just being difficult? The vast majority of carbon emissions are caused by the huge multinational corporations, not individual people Stop patronising me! Yes I do undertsand. But I believe that if we all stop purchasing products from those multi nationals they wil have to change their production methods.

The only way to harm a capotalist is through the wallet.

Measuring your carbon footprint is an eye opening experience. Some of the calculators make you look at every item in your home in a very different way. Once you can idntify what is excess you can stop buyng it it / reduce consumption or change supplier to a more ethical one.

Huge multinationals depend on us... we are the ones that put money into their system. We can change that, we may not have much real influence over anything else!

We need government and business action. Yes! So identify what you can do/stop doing, hurt businesses in their pockets and governments through your vote!

That's the point!

@CuriousaboutSamphire I continue to be puzzled/surprised that you really really want me to list environmentally beneficial things I've done in my life? I haven't felt the need to do that because I'm not feeling the same stratospheric levels of smugness that you seem to be enjoying. As I said earlier, small personal actions are obviously (like really, really obviously) important, but they're a drop in the ocean compared to the world-altering actions that governments have the power to take, and THAT is what these protests are about.

If you really must know (and to stop you going on about it) I recycle or compost pretty much everything I use, green energy user, cycle everywhere within cycling distance, take trains on longer-distance journeys, don't drive, don't have children, very very rarely fly anywhere, use reusable cups/bottles, buy most of my clothes/furniture/stuff secondhand, generally live as low-waste and low-impact as I can. Not everyone can do all of this stuff, but I do what I can. Happy now?

And as an aside, I spent a number hours cycling between protest sites in London on Monday and Tuesday during my day's work, and I don't remember seeing any more litter than I'd see on any average central London street. Just an awful lot of people spanning generations and social strata peacefully and respectfully engaging in an act of civil disobedience.

I continue to be puzzled/surprised that you really really want me to list environmentally beneficial things I've done in my life? Don't take it personally - I do mean anyone who has not already thought about it. And again, I was responding to someone who asked... I didn't just decide to make myself feel better! There si much more I could do, but don't as it would have a negative impact on my life and work. I'm not stratospheriocally smug, I haven't done a lot - just more than many and over a long period of time.

Basically what I have worked hard to achieve is worthy of a quick smirk but not as big a smirk as others might be able to muster. My point was that each person should know enough about there own consumption to be able to make more informed choices.

Making new decison based on that knowledge would have a direct impact. Small but important.

I have no personal experience of the litter left behind, just going by what others have said, here and on facebook!

This isn't about me and you farting around with Ecover and planting sunflowers for the bees, things are well beyond this, this is designed to cause a disruption because it's the big companies they need to reach.

We are talking about it, it's all over the media, it seems it's working.

Nice and polite isn't working anymore.

I have to walk to work. I have a knackered disc and it hurts like hell. It reminds me of the campaigners who camped out by St. Paul’s a few years back.

And I thought they were told to stick to Marble Arch? No they are still at Oxford Circus. Why aren’t they outside the Chinese embassy or the American in for that matter?

Ecover??? Nasty stuff

Sunflowers??? Known as The Mother Lode to beekeepers and their bees

Why advocate violence? Nice and polite can be very powerful if done well!

I'm not advocating violence. The protests are not violent.

They inconvenience, they get the headlines.

@CuriousaboutSamphire Violence?... Disruption doesn't have to be violent, and from what I've seen in person there hasn't been one tiny iota of that in these protests. A couple of smashed windows at the Shell headquarters if I remember rightly? But otherwise it's basically just sitting down in places people shouldn't really sit down.

Nice and polite isn't working anymore.

A couple of smashed windows at the Shell headquarters if I remember rightly? So just a few thousand pounds worth of damage and wasted resources. OK!

I'm off to walk the one thing that wrecks my carbon footprint - 1 small dog!

There is a huge step from "nice and polite" to being violent. Don't put words in my mouth.

The UK is responsible for less than 1% of global emissions. The protests should be held in China, India or Australia.

Yes, I agree.

But it has to start somewhere.

I await with bated breath for this to lead to similar protests in China and India.

@ControversialFerret couldn't agree more. It's all very well moaning at my single use plastic bag because i forgot my cloth bags,l while your 4 children are in your minibus.

We were in Central London today and they are causing chaos; vandalism, graffiti on the roads and walls, human faeces and we overheard a police officer saying that the police horses couldn’t be out because a couple of the protesters had tried to scare the horses.

Complete opposite of the “peaceful protest” they claim to be having.