To be angry about the lack of females on boys pyjamas?

[WeasleyWoman]

This seems rather minor but has me riled. I was in Asda today with my 3yr old giving her free rein to choose pants (in prep for potty training) she wanted paw patrol pants which could only be found in the boys section: no probs briefs are briefs when you are 3. I noticed that the pants only had the male pups on, even the ones with 5 pups still didn't have the token females (apparently they can only appear on the pink pants). This got me looking for female characters in the boys section, the only one I could find was Owlet (score 1 for pj masks) everyone else had gone, no Lilly on the Peter rabbit clothes just (Peter and Benjamin), no Penny on fireman Sam (just Sam, Elvis and the chief), no black widow or captain marvel on the avenger tops not even Peppa fucking pig on the Peppa pig clothes! It's Bacon girl's show yet all the boy's clothes have George on. I feel like there is, at last, starting to be more of a focus on making sure little girls know they can do anything, achieve anything and don't have to just aspire to be mums, wives and princesses but what is the point if we don't tell the boys too? If we don't show them that women are useful and important members of the team then aren't we just shout in the dark, or rather shouting in the pink sparkly section?

I too buy my ds 'girls' tops because he likes cats. The 'girls' tops have wide necks, more revealing - it's creepy.. he's 4!

You are absolutely right. Kids clothes with slogans and cartoon characters on are almost always sexist. So far I have managed to avoid buying them but there will come a point when my daughter asks for them.

Honestly, my DS wouldn't wear anything with a girl on
And how much do you challenge that? You don't say his age so that may affect your answer. How actively do you promote strong positive female role-models so he grows into a young man with equal respect for both sexes?

As a feminist. I do this every day! Cheeky mare!

Totally agree OP - annoys me too.
I've bought DD clothes from both sections since she was born but she's starting to get the message (from nursery & tv I suspected) that this is for girls, that's fit boys.
Last weekend went to Clark's Village for shoes - she'd gone up a size so needed new nursery shoes. Usually get her boys ones as they're more hard wearing buy last time caved & got her girls ones. Only agreed as they completely covered the foot (no ridiculous open style) but they had patent on the toe & in the space of a few months she's scuffed & ripper the patent up. This time we checked the girls section - nothing suitable so went to the boys. Found a great pair with rubber across the toe but she didn't want them as they were for boys. Cue tears etc & her screaming she didn't like black - I pointed out the girls ones were black too, she replied it was a different black 😂 She's got the boys shoes btw & I know they'll look practically new come the end of term unlike the girls ones.

It happens with boys stuff too. There are a million places that have 75000 pink sparkly peppa pig tops and no george ones, or a thousand cutesy tbar pairs of shoes and two choices of different trainers for boys.

@Answeringonlyyesorno why am I cheeky for asking a perfectly reasonable question, considering your comment about it being his choice? That could mean it's his choice but you challenge it constantly or it's his choice and you don't feel the need to impose your opinions. You do, fair enough. I was asking a question, not casting aspersions

To the PPs that's say "just get clothes from the opposite gender selection!" Yes wonderful! I would do that - but many parents wouldn't.

Then it’s an issue with parents? If you do it then what’s the issue, who are you to police others? Your job is to teach your child the correct thing in this regard not oversee everyone else teaching their children.

As for ALL characters having to be on something so a child is happy. That’s not the way of the world. Again, casting my mind back all the characters were rarely together for marketing purposes, so you buy more shirts because the kid also wants the whole ‘set’.

My son lived Dora, loved Cars (think he was a bit older when that came out but he had the whole set of toy cars including all the girl characters) and I’m sure loved many other things that sent the wrong message in regards to gender stereotypes. Guess what! He turned out fine because what we taught him at home overrode all of that. I don’t know what other people taught their kids as they are not my kids and it’s not my business.

My daughter is more into stereotypes on the surface but not so much if you delve into it. One day when she was a young teen she said something about girls not playing football. I challenged that and her response was along the lines of it’s a rough game where you will probably come out of it with something broken, something damaged and concussion (all standard in our games) and girls are far to sensible to participate in a game where they know they will essentially have the shit beaten out of them. Best left to boys without as much common sense was her opinion. Having said that we have now introduced a women’s game in that code ......

Well to be honest my 4yo ds would pull his face at having Penny on his pyjamas when he can have Fireman Sam instead. Sorry.

The big issue with buying from the girls' section is that so many girls' items have a stupid frill, bow or flounce somewhere! Plus that stupid flouncy sleeve gather, not counting the fact that many of the girls' clothes are thinner and less practical.

I do buy lots of stuff for DD from the boys' section but she loves pink as well as cars.

I'm at the point where I can find very little I want to buy. Doesn't help that DD needs trousers to be very slim cut or they don't stay on - so tends to fit girls' better than boys as a result.

I am not interested in my son having female characters or daughter having male characters on their clothing. This gender thing about clothing is much ado about nothing. It's not teaching them anything. It's what you as a parent teach them and your words and actions that will have the greatest impact.

Men and women are different. Equality of opportunities is what's important. Respect for each other is what's important. Celebrating differences is what's important.

Little girls and boys generally like different things. So what? They generally behave differently, mature differently, etc. So what?

The problem arises when girls and boys are not taught to respect each other for who they are and the choices they make. The problem arises when boys and girls are not encouraged to aim as high as they can for whatever they want.

This clothing thing is a distraction. Even if this clothing issue was solved the problems of gender discrimination (not just against women but very much also against men) will still be there if respect for each other and our differences aren't taught and acted out in homes.

Little girls and boys generally like different things. So what? They generally behave differently, mature differently, etc. So what?

The problem is boys are taught sub-consciously and consciously to like things that promote fearlessness, speaking their mind and experimentation. Girls are taught sub-consciously and consciously to like things that promote being pretty, friendly and happy. Economically this translates into women in lower paid ‘helping’ jobs and boys in entrepreneurial roles and STEM. Socially this translates in women being expected to kowtow to men and sublimate their own wishes to accommodate male happiness and agree to things that make them uncomfortable to avoid causing offence.

Then it’s an issue with parents? If you do it then what’s the issue, who are you to police others? Your job is to teach your child the correct thing in this regard not oversee everyone else teaching their children.

It is an issue with society in general as a whole. OF COURSE I have no control over what other people teach their children and nor do I try to oversee them. And I'm sure you knew that is not what I meant.

Little girls and boys generally like different things. My anecdotal experience of having one of each has shown that no they don't - until the marking explains to them that they should like different things. Only girls shown in pink playing with dolls, only boys with any building toys etc.

The whole point of this thread, for those who are simply not getting it, is that children are being sent subtle and not so subtle messages almost from birth about gender inequality. Of course decent people will teach their children the right thing and NO ONE is saying that because little Johnny wore a pair of paw patrol pyjamas without Skye on when he was 3 he's turned into a massive misogynistic arsehole at the age of 40. It's obviously not as simple as that!

The point of the OP and others on this thread is that it is sad that these messages are still there and that they should not be. And DESPITE parents' best attempts, the continued subconscious receiving of these messages can put the idea into BOYS heads that girls are in some way less.

This may seem like a silly minor issue, but it is part of a much wider problem. Boys are being taught from a very young age that girls are worth less than they are, and that being seen in the vicinity of a female character will somehow damage their masculinity. This translates later on as boys refusing to read any book that has a girl on the cover, or where the author has a female name (hence why Joanne Rowling was published as JK). Why do brands impose this segregation? Money, probably, but I wish they would think a bit more carefully about it.

When my 4 year old ds started Reception, he came home some time later and told his little sister "you can't so that, you're a GIRL". It's horrible it starts so early. I swiftly corrected him. He now likes a lot of stuff his sisters do, but every now and then will come out with the same sort of rhetoric. The clothes stuff is just another example of how indicative it is. Females aren't really worth anything. And the boys get taught this early.

It's bloody ridiculous - so you can identify with a character from different species. You can identify with a robot or alien or unicorn. But a character of different sex? OOH NO, that's not for you! What's in your pants is the most important thing and we'll make sure you'll get the message the second you're born.

It is a silly issue and children and not being sent subliminal messages that women are worth less through these clothing. Oh and it goes both ways. Is it just girls that are getting messages that they are worth less? I personally don't believe they are. In Western society the balance have shifted in some instances to a point where it's damaging to boys. Just look at adverts and how they typically portray men.

Ultimately it is about respect for each other and each other's differences. It's about teaching that we have equal opportunities but people are free to pursue what makes them happy even if that thing conforms to gender stereotypes or does not. It's okay for boys not to like girly things and it's okay for girls not to like boyish stuff. Equally it's okay for them to like those things. It's okay for boys and girls clothing to cater to the general taste of little boys and girls. There is no subtle problem there.

It's good if girls identity with female characters, cartoon or otherwise and it's good if boys identify with male characters. Nothing wrong with that.

I prefer reading about successful female individuals and I'd much prefer to have them on my clothing than a male character.

The problem comes when we do not reinforce respect for both gender.

Oh and it goes both ways. Is it just girls that are getting messages that they are worth less? of course it goes both ways. Not every issue is just about how it affects females.

It's good if girls identity with female characters, cartoon or otherwise and it's good if boys identify with male characters. Nothing wrong with that agreed, but it's also good for children to identify with aspects of other people who may initially appear different to them. So admiring what Skye went through to be a pilot, admiring Xuli's flying skills, or Owlette determination. We don't have to identify with the person who most looks like us

The infuriating thing is people saying it is ok for people to like girly stuff or boyish things.

There are no girly things or boyish stuff! Only marketing that is being forced on us to make us think these things exist.

Just let people choose what they want. They can't choose it if it isn't offered.

Parents wanting missing characters added - perhaps you could appliqué them on?

I wonder if it's really market research and what sells, or just assumption. If the shop sold 2 otherwise identical t-shirts, one with all the Paw Patrol pups and one with the male ones only, would the one with less characters really sell better?

It's good if girls identity with female characters, cartoon or otherwise and it's good if boys identify with male characters. Nothing wrong with that.

You are missing the point.

It’s completely acceptable for a girl’s favourite superhero to be Batman and wear a batman t shirt. If a boy were to say his favourite superhero is Wonder Woman and wear a WW t shirt, he’d be mocked. You have to ask yourself why that is. Women are used to relating to male characters, because most lead characters are male. Female lead characters are seen as niche, and for girls. It’s not cool for boys to look up to female characters and the message is that female characters are lesser than male characters.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to leave a female character off a group image on pyjamas. It’s crazy that you can’t buy a boys Peppa Pig pyjama set with Peppa on it when she’s the main character.

If anyone can’t see beyond the surface of this and see what is behind it, that’s a bit alarming.

Whilst in the whole scheme of things this can be seen as trivial, it is the insidious drip of unnecessary sexism that is the problem. Yes, nobody has died, and that's great but if we never challenge this dirty of nonsense then by being passive we're basically accepting it.

A letter to sainsbury, jesus christ.

Next time you go ask them the aisle number where you could get a life.

@Myheartbelongsto why would someone need to "get a life" because they'd written a letter to Sainsbury's about it? I think it's incredibly sad that you think that someone who feels passionate about something and has expressed their opinion to a large company needs to get a life. If it doesn't bother you fair enough, but why sneer at others that it does bother..?