To be angry about the lack of females on boys pyjamas?

[WeasleyWoman]

This seems rather minor but has me riled. I was in Asda today with my 3yr old giving her free rein to choose pants (in prep for potty training) she wanted paw patrol pants which could only be found in the boys section: no probs briefs are briefs when you are 3. I noticed that the pants only had the male pups on, even the ones with 5 pups still didn't have the token females (apparently they can only appear on the pink pants). This got me looking for female characters in the boys section, the only one I could find was Owlet (score 1 for pj masks) everyone else had gone, no Lilly on the Peter rabbit clothes just (Peter and Benjamin), no Penny on fireman Sam (just Sam, Elvis and the chief), no black widow or captain marvel on the avenger tops not even Peppa fucking pig on the Peppa pig clothes! It's Bacon girl's show yet all the boy's clothes have George on. I feel like there is, at last, starting to be more of a focus on making sure little girls know they can do anything, achieve anything and don't have to just aspire to be mums, wives and princesses but what is the point if we don't tell the boys too? If we don't show them that women are useful and important members of the team then aren't we just shout in the dark, or rather shouting in the pink sparkly section?

It annoys me and I have a boy. Paw Patrol are a team so why are they split up into boys and girls for merchandise? Ds wants all the pups together, he wants Peppa and George together and this took a lot of finding. Yes I can, and occasionally have gone and bought him something with just Peppa or Skye from the girls section but this still didn't solve the problem because he wants all the characters. I don't want my boy to grow up thinking he must only like boy characters and boys and girls must have different interests- which is also implied with the pink frilly baby girl clothes with butterflies and cupcakes and the boy ones with cars and superheroes.

The ones who are saying it does not matter - if it does not, WHY segregate and limit? Why are female characters femoved from boys' clothes, if it's all the same and makes no difference? It's not an accident or random selection, is it?

It’s just a sales/marketing ploy. Data has obviously told them they will sell more this way. If data told them they would sell more if the undies were united under unisex them it’s exactly what they would do. It’s all about $$$, not some huge conspiracy theory.

It’s just not difficult, if you want a mix of characters just grab some from both sections.

I should add I have one lad who was a HUGE Dora the Explorer fan (not sure if it’s still around). He wore some Dora undies, t-shirts and PJ’s. We got them from the girls section. So far, so good, early 30’s and does not appear to have any ideas of what women can or can’t do based on which dept we sourced his undies from as a 3yo.

You could bring pens and draw them on yourself next time you’re out. Future generations of enlightened pant wearers will sing your name unto the aeons

I love Mumsnet

People saying adult clothing is not gender neutral. Actually a lot of adult casual clothing is. Jeans and t-shirts might come in different size ranges for men and women, but the differences can be rather subtle. A lot of people wear black trousers and jumpers - almost identical for men and women.

I don't know why anyone is comparing this situation to adult clothes. We're not talking about 100% gender neutral fashion, we're just asking why a boy can't have a female cartoon character on his tshirt/pants and vice versa! Next time a woman goes to the high street and can't find her favourite male cartoon character on a lovely bodysuit for a night out on the town, let me know.

@matchsetpoint - second h and m for 'boys sequin clothing' my dd has the dinosaur range and a few of the ninjago tshirts from there

@twosoups1972 I think you're really missing the point here. It's fantastic that your daughters are feminists (and feminists can wear pink and frilly stuff should they choose to!) but I am raising a son who I hope also grows up to view women as equal to him. I hope he doesn't even realise it's a thing that some people don't. I hope inequality between the two sexes has been completely eradicated by the time he's an adult (wishful thinking - it won't have been!!). I certainly hope that he respects women and looks up to them and has them as role models and aspires to be like certain women. The lack of female characters on boys clothes sends them a message that they're not as interesting, that they're 'supporting roles', that the boys shouldn't be fans of them/aspire to be like them. That makes me very very cross!!

My DS has been brought up (so far - he's not that old!) to play with whatever toys he likes, choose whatever colours he likes, he's been told boys can do ballet / girls can play football. He sees his father doing ironing and never me. He sees his father cooking up an amazing Sunday roast and his mother cooking up preeeeeeeety shite meals if I'm honest as am rubbish at cooking. Despite all this he still tells me stuff is for girls/boys because he's not at school and he hears it elsewhere. And he sees it in shops and on merchandise and in advertising and in films (he loves the film Cars. "Sally isn't a racing car because she's a girl" - quote from it son. The message that girls are less is EVERYWHERE and it terrifies me!!! Despite my best efforts my lovely little boy may grow up to subconsciously view women as not as important as him.

I don't think the worry is the same for people bringing up girls. I like to think that girls realise they are not less. I like to think girls come out fighting for their place in their career/society. And good on them!! But the fact is they should not have to. They should not have to fight. They should just do what they love in life and be seen as equal. Be rewarded equally. Feel safe. I could go on and on and on. There has been a real focus on girls but there also needs to be one on boys too.

To the PPs that's say "just get clothes from the opposite gender selection!" Yes wonderful! I would do that - but many parents wouldn't. I hear it all the time "that's for girls/that's for boys". I think parents of boys are more likely to dismiss something because it was "for girls" than the other way round (due to their own conditioning growing up). Society is far happier to accept a girl in a pair of compact trousers and a grey T-shirt with (eg) Spider-Man on that it is of a little boy in in a pink frilly my little pony T-shirt. I hear the words "that's for girls, you can't have that" A LOT when out shopping. I'm not sure I've ever heard the reverse.

All of the above can harm a young boy too - he's being told what he likes is wrong. There are so so many facets to this whole issue.

And I just want to finish by saying @butteryellow I really liked your post and what you said. Spot on!

So many spelling mistakes
*combat trousers! Not compact trousers

It’s just not difficult, if you want a mix of characters just grab some from both sections.

And what, cut the character out and stitch it on the other shirt to get a full team?

Has anybody been part of any survey where they could confirm to clothes' manufacturers that yes, they definitely want all female characters excluded from boys' merchandise? They want no Elsa, Moana, Black Widow or Rey in the set, as they simply wouln't buy it?
Film makes also insisted that female superheroe movies simply won't sell, except of course that Captain Marvel is up to what, a billion already?

My kids have noticed that Skye is missing from Ds' paw patrol stuff. So Yanbu

I suspect the women on here who claim it's not a big deal are the same people who would shout LTB or call husbands sexist pigs or demand that they be treated equally as a SAHM, etc

Nope. They are the ones who call 14 year old girls "little slags" and the ones who say things like "I'm proud to be a Mrs". In short, handmaidens of the patriarchy.

I agree with you OP. I remember the day my daughter decided that she was no longer allowed to like Thomas the Tank, because Thomas was for boys.

Malificent it isn't about preferring feminine clothes, it is the way female and male cartoon characters are used on gendered clothing. It sends a powerful message to both boys and girls from a young age.

I actually agree with you OP. It may not be the biggest problem facing females right now but these nuances build up to a bigger picture that essentially say "females aren't worthy of male's consideration or time". I hadn't noticed until your thread but I bet I notice a lot now!

PJ masks is quite a good one for boys - Owlette is female, yes there are 2 boys but she isn't a "token" female and they are on an even standing with just being three of them. And she features on the boys clothes.

Only on MN do you read about gender neutral clothes.

Not true. It’s a huge issue to the extent lots of brands are now doing gender neutral ranges. For example, this ASOS range which has been widely popular and grown enormously: www.asos.com/collusion/collusion-unisex-logo-hoodie-in-neon/prd/11934609?clr=yellow&SearchQuery=collusion&gridcolumn=2&gridrow=4&gridsize=2&pge=1&pgesize=72&totalstyles=795

Just because you’re not talking about it doesn’t mean no one is.

Honestly, my DS wouldn't wear anything with a girl on. He only ever wanted George Pig, and now won't wear a Minecraft t shirt with Alex on.
I class myself as a feminist, and he's been raised as an equal to females, but that's his choice.

Honestly, my DS wouldn't wear anything with a girl on. He only ever wanted George Pig, and now won't wear a Minecraft t shirt with Alex on. I class myself as a feminist, and he's been raised as an equal to females, but that's his choice.

This is a genuine question - what would you do if he liked a show with one black character, and he wouldn't wear a shirt if it had that character on? Would that be ok because it's his choice or would you be a bit worried about what it said about the ideas he was picking up?

No that wouldn't be ok in the slightest. My DS is naturally drawn to male role models, black or white.

Some aspects of parenting must've been much easier when clothes were just colours, with no characters or branding.

No that wouldn't be ok in the slightest. My DS is naturally drawn to male role models, black or white.

Why would it not be ok for him to reject black characters but it’s all good for him to do the same with female ones? Double standards much?

I think it's insidious - it's the beginning of a massively gendered world for a child.

My DD2 is a huge paw patrol fan, her favourite pup is Marshall, she has little interest in Skye. So we bought clothes with the characters she likes, irrespective of the department they come from. It is easier to do for a girl. She's now 4, so more aware of the world and has picked up from nursery and her poorly trained older sister that they are boys clothes. I always say, "no, they are your clothes, you're a girl, so they are girls clothes". But I think it's a losing battle for me on clothes.

DD2 doesn't seem to have picked up on anything else that is so strongly gendered yet, but once the idea of things being for boys or girls starts then it's a barrage of gendered toys, jobs, household roles. I suspect that the earlier you are told that things are gendered, the more strongly you will feel compelled to adhere to stereotypes, though there is probably actually research somewhere that either confirms or refutes that. So if you're 'told' at 2 that things are girls'/boys', you will internalise that more than if you make it to 4 before being 'told'.

To the PPs that's say "just get clothes from the opposite gender selection!" Yes wonderful! I would do that - but many parents wouldn't. exactly this. the little boy who had to have a shopping trolley because he couldn't have a pushchair because they're for boys - you think his Mom would go to the girls to buy him a Skye T-Shirt? No, but if ALL the characters were on ALL the clothes it would just be normal.

It may not be the biggest problem facing females right now but these nuances build up to a bigger picture that essentially says "females aren't worthy of male's consideration or time". it isn't just about the girls though. There's lots of pressure to teach girls they can do anything boys can. We're collectively less interested in telling boys they can do anything girls can.

Honestly, my DS wouldn't wear anything with a girl on
And how much do you challenge that? You don't say his age so that may affect your answer. How actively do you promote strong positive female role-models so he grows into a young man with equal respect for both sexes?

Gender bias is a thing. Sadly my 6YO recently stopped wearing a much loved Rainbow Dash hoodie as he was worried it wasn't for boys (it honestly isn't overly 'girly' but I think he got comments at school). Luckily his younger brother now loves it.

I have recently started shopping at Frugi and Piccalilly which I find much more gender neutral and the clothes last forever
Space and tractors for girls and boys, animals and bright colours for boys and girls (even rainbows!) Piccalilly do dragons prints too :)

www.welovefrugi.com/baby-toddler-clothes/collections-baby-toddler-main/ss19-hop-on-board/snuggle_fleece_7_marine_blue_fly_away.htm

www.piccalilly.co.uk/dungarees-safari

Good luck. I don't think things will change at the supermarkets, so vote with your feet. I only buy 2nd hand or in the sale as obviously it's more expensive to buy Frugi type brands.