AIBU to want to call the police on DS 17?

[Nickpan]

Takes cards from wallets, steal clothes from siblings (his younger brother hasn't seen his Armani jeans since he got them on xmas day), he's about to lose his job, keeps getting caught with weed, has been searched twice by police....
He ruefully admits it, if he's warned that other siblings will all be punished too... he has, oddly enough, high levels of loyalty in certain areas, maybe not toward older family. Massive loyalty to his friends, has admitted they are a bad influence on him, but he will not consider dropping them for a minute. I suspect he's anti-adult, which makes it easier for him to charm and con them. He could have done well in exams, but skived off to spend time with his friends who weren't up to the level of exams. He lost his mum in 2013 sad
Sporadic counselling, he says it helps, but he knows the right things to say, the right buttons to press.
He tells a good tale, and can wrap anyone around his finger. All other parents think he is an angel. All money in house now locked in master bedroom, but he is so on the ball, you only have to turn your back for a second. Actually pulled a brand new hoodie off his little brother's back to wear out. The xmas jeans have holes in, and 5 pairs of white socks that his little bro got for xmas, have not been seen since. Plus many other examples, ie, little bro travelled 40 miles to a big shopping mall, but some items snatched that evening.
Failing at his job, about to be sacked, all pocket money stopped in an attempt to get him to take work seriously. I'm concerned that his GP give him pocket money, clothes money, haircut money, but feel it would be unfair to ask them to stop. He visits them and they love it, and he comes away with money. I found 3 bags of weed in a nice clutch bag - with scales and tools to shred it.
Today, realised he took a debit card 10 days ago, has clocked up nearly £500, as he guessed that the pin was same as phone unlock number

He's got a massive drug problem, obviously.

It must be absolutely devastating to lose your mother when you're just approaching adolescence. Devastating at any age but the teenage years are so difficult anyway and dealing with such a major loss at the same time may have been more than he could cope with.

He won't find his way out of this mess, deal with his grief and make something of his life until he sorts out the drug problem. You can't do it for him but you can help him find the right support.

Services are generally a lot better for under 25s and especially under 18s, so find out what's available near you asap and present it as an option.

You can search for local services on talk to frank www.talktofrank.com/get-help/find-support-near-you.

If he doesn't like the options you find, or if he says he'll engage and then doesn't, or if cuts are so bad in your area that there's bugger all available even for under 18s then absolutely call the police, this time or the next. Aside from anything else, that may be his best chance of getting effective treatment.

Chucking him out should be your last option but should always be an option. It's incredibly hard to survive financially as a young person these days without additional support. Minimum wage for a 17 y/o is £4.35/hour. If you sign a letter saying why you are no longer supporting him he can get universal credit but the rates are much lower for young people. Even if he kept his job and was clean living he would be extremely poor. The likelihood is he'd end up dealing more and crashing on friend's sofas.

Your life matters as much as his life. You're the responsible adult and you obviously care a lot but this isn't sustainable. It's not OK what you and your other children are putting up with so don't mess about, if something's not working go straight to the next option. Don't let things drift.

SusieQ I was going for a better solution :(

I'd love a copper to turn up and read him the riot act, and show him the error of his ways. And he'll listen, and he'll make promises, and he'll cry...

It's impossible to predict what will happen and how far things will go once the police are involved, and I understand that's why you're so reluctant to do so. I wouldn't want to diagnose him, but he sounds genuinely narcissistic. He'll never be able to accept blame. Whatever happens will always be someone else's fault. Some people are just born that way.

You need to find someway to get him out of the house, but at the same time where he won't be homeless and will have some opportunity to better himself. That way when he does crash and burn, he can't blame you and you will be justified in not taking him back. Once he has the impetus to do so, by the sound of it he will be able to stand on his own two feet.

the reality is your 17 yr old is a criminal.

He steals. It is just a question of time before he becomes a convicted criminal. Probably another 4 years at max before either he moves out and steals from the wrong person or you give in and report him.

I am at a bit of a loss to understand why you have so little control over your 17 year old. He is utterly dependent on you to live. Surely that gives you some leverage.

I feel for you, OP. I really do. Could you call your local police and ask them for help? Otherwise I suspect you may have to let him sink and hope he rises again.

If you don’t stop it now, where do you think things will end up?
The police have community officers, they may already know of your son, they think they’re cleaver not they get caught.
Where the holiday? What if he tries to smuggle? What then? Do you have enough money to bail him out in another country?

You need to speak to someone and soon

Who is "we"? Are you his dad? Have the siblings also lost their mum or are they half/step?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to figure out the dynamic

My DH reluctantly reported DSS1 to the police at 18 for stealing all valuables from the house, emptying DH's bank account, selling DH's army discharge papers, and taking and dealing weed. DSS1 had left school at 16 without any qualifications, and had become unmanageable. DH was worried about the impact on DSS2 and DS, who were aged 12 and newborn at the time. He had split with his ex wife when the kids were very young (DSS2 was a baby) and had brought then up on his own after his ex had abandoned them. DSS1 spent much of his childhood in hospital which interrupted his education, and he fell in with a bad crowd.

DSS was given a suspended sentence and moved in with friends. It really affected his relationship with DH and DSS2, although oddly not DS until he was older and for different reasons. DSS1 has been very repentant ever since and believed that DH had never forgiven him. DH found it hard to speak to him about the past, but on his deathbed they made up.

DSS hasn't been in trouble with the police since, but has also never had a job and is still smoking weed. DSS2 and DS have been very vocal about not wanting to follow in his footsteps and both have excellent work ethics and are scrupulously honest - I could give either of them my bank card to go shopping and they would not buy anything other than what I've asked them to. I don't know whether it's because of the police intervention or not, but I know that DSS2 felt secure after his brother left home, and didn't have to lock his bedroom door when he went to school.

Dealing with grief? I should cocoa, sounds as though he is dealing ,full stop. So either he will at some point step on some bigger, nasty toes that will " deal " with him in a way you don't want to think about, or he will get caught , charged, and probably banged up.

Unfortunately he is a young person, whose brain tells him he is invincible, he will have to learn the hard way that he isn't.

I've been where you are with my ds1... but without the loss of a mum which without doubt has had a huge affect. My son had no such reason..he was just an asshole teenager. He stole from us... quite a large amount, stole from his siblings, sold their stuff, smoked weed, smashed the walls in his many rages... and cried when challenged.

I didn't throw him out because I felt it would only make for a worse outcome.

What I did was a) get the local police to come and give him a real talking to, and b) make it clear we were totally aware of his theft and that no one trusted him. Got a combination safe and everything went in it. Told him he had til 18 to turn himself around or he would be out and on his own.

Fast forward a few years and my son still lives with us, though is going to move to Oz soon as his fiancee is an Aussie . He works 2 jobs, pays us rent, the safe is a thing of the past and I can happily hand him my bank card. He grew up.

What saved him was getting a full time job... he earned his own money, realised his 'mates' were a bunch of losers and that he wanted more... he paid for his own driving lessons, took his music hobby more seriously and he simply matured.

I'm not saying he's perfect (he still smokes weed now and again) but he is a respectable man, with a job, a partner, getting a following on the local music circuit playing gigs and is SO far away from that stupid teen that it's hard to remember how bad he was.

I'd say..don't give up on him but lay out the facts, get him scared a bit and hang in there for a couple more years!

To explain, he's actually my nephew, the mum he lost was my little sister, and his dad, my brother-in-law is actually the one who is at his wits end, I've written this thread to see if there was an option none of us have thought of. As he is my late sister's first born, we don't want to throw him to the wolves/police/let him fend for himself, we're all hoping it'll suddenly sort itself out, or he'll bottom out without us forcing it. Obviously, the longer it goes on, the nearer his dad is to 'forcing it', and the police have been mentioned ;(

I'd get the police round for a good talking to regarding stealing money/weed.

Tell him to grow up, that's what my family did with me when I had a few troublesome years and honestly it really pulled me down a peg and made me not so arrogant! (I never stole or did drugs/drinking though, I just never liked to listen to my parents & spent a lot of money via credit cards/payday loans I had taken out).

Look into a hobby too, maybe he could find some new friends there that are good influences? Martial Arts are great for discipline and creating a family kind of atmosphere.

thankyou @StillMedusa x

How is he getting away with taking his siblings' stuff? How is it that he can swipe somebody else's designer jeans on Christmas Day and not have to return them? What consequences do you place in him? How do his subling's deal with I'm stealing from them?

When did all this start?

His problem is the drugs. If he didn't want drugs he wouldn't steal. Can he go into rehab? I'm in lreland and while very few places take that age there are a few. I would focus on getting him into drug rehab as while he is using he will have no respect for property etc.
I have some experience in this area with a younger relative and rehab turned him round. He also reasons for being particularly vulnerable but help was needed in a major way.
He is now drug free in a full time job and wouldn't dream of stealing.
Focus on the drugs. Even if his dm dying started this it's gone too far now and radical help is needed.
Getting advice from a drugs support group would be a start.

I know someone very close who had the same kind of situation with her DS, drugs, drink, arsehole mates etc, but she was soft with him, making every excuse for his poor behaviour, even when he stole from her and threatened her with a knife. He ended up in prison, and when he came out the family moved miles away to give him a fresh start - too late!

He's now nearly 40, can't hold down a job, but can't cope when he has money anyway. He has a room in a halfway house type of place, but often sleeps rough when he's too drunk to get home, she seems to know that he'll be dead soon.

Be tough, it may not be too late, but there's no way that the softly-softly approach will work at this stage

I'm torn. Him going to prison may be a wake up call. On the other hand, he could end up meeting worse people in prison and then his life really will go down the toilet.

We're hoping to avoid wake up calls like that

OP kids are a product of their genetics and upbringing. Very few kids from a secure, loving environment turn out like your son. You need to try to help him first and foremost. Yes he’s behaving terribly but the way your post is written sounds a bit vengeful.
You need to make it clear his behaviour like stealing will not be tolerated and if it happens then you’ll have no choice but to call the police but try to provide a loving, supportive environment for him. Remember you are the adult in this. Yes he’s 17 but he’s barely an adult.

I would avoid calling police because a criminal record will further damage his future opportunities. Could you try and get him to apply for an apprenticeship or college course in something he is interested in that might lead to a decent job in the future? Also I think you need to talk to GPs about how they treat him, perhaps suggest they give money for odd jobs in house and garden. Talk to him about the consequences of card fraud and drug dealing if he is caught - once 18 he would be dealt with as an adult and the penalties are severe. If all else fails could he live with his GPs to give your other DCs a break?

Rather than reporting him for the thefts, maybe have a word with your local police to see if they run any kind of outreach programme. Some areas do, they're to try to prevent 'troubled' teenagers getting criminal records. I think he'd need to willing to engage though.

I can't believe that you would call the police given the circumstances, something has gone wrong from 13 to now and there has to be some element of responsibility for that on the adults in his life. He will get a criminal record, how's that helping him in any way, it's just washing your hands of the problem.

Surely it’s better that the police give him a wake up call now before he hits 18?

It’s unfortunate that there is little middle ground, unless you can find some charity or agency that helps kids like DN in your area?

It sounds as if you don’t want to do anything painful or difficult. I don’t see how you can avoid this. As someone observed upthread, the police will be onto him soon enough anyway - and maybe for something even worse.

You need to ring the police. The other kids in the house need to be protected. They will suffer - are suffering - if you (or rather his dad) don’t.

They will feel you (collective you - all the adults) failed them.

Sorry. I know it’s hard.

The PP who are saying don't call the police, have you ever had anything stolen from you? The majority of people work hard for what they achieve in life and then thieves like your nephew get a free pass to money, designer clothes and drugs. It's very sad about his mother but you need to teach him as soon as possible that it doesnt excuse his absolutely appalling behaviour. You cant just bury your head in the sand and hope it will all go away, if he continues to get away with it he will continue to steal and maybe it won't just be a bit of weed hes dealing and taking next time...