Notre Dame fire

[DrVonPatak]

I'm just shocked, I can't believe it. I have a picture of DH and myself on bicycles in front of it on a canvas in our bedroom, one of our favourite trips, I just can't believe it went up in flames!!!

Maybe god should have stepped in sooner *

Would you have been prepared to write that about Allah, had it been a mosque that burned down?*

Yes.

Oh, and God should be capitalised.

Why should it be?

I heard that brave firefighters (of all faiths) formed a human chain to get the Crown of Thorns and other priceless religious artefacts from the fire. Bless them all. They are good people.

God always wills the good out of situations.

Oh, the irony.

You know what I find heartbreaking TeddyisaHe.
The fact that the more one gives to disaster and famine relief over the decades, the more you come to realise that all that happens is even more starving and destitute the next time round. Exercise in futility.

If you do a deep clean of your home today, is that it then? You never have to clean again? Of course not. These are developing countries and it will take some time before they cease to be developing countries and have the infrastructure to cope with unusual weather or other unpredictable conditions. To consider helping in times of crisis an exercise in futility is to consider the lives saved not worth saving. Because that is the aim of famine relief. (There are other programmes which are trying to deal with the long-term problems, and I know they do have their problems, but famine relief is just about saving lives.)

Even in developed countries such as the UK, many tragedies aren’t a one-off. Children killed by abusive and neglectful parents?

You're using the destruction of a building that has huge amount of religious and cultural significance to lots of different people to push your agenda of mocking religious beliefs.

And yes, I do believe that God chooses (doesn't have to) to mainly abide by the natural laws of our world. However, I hope many children are inspired to become firefighters or architectural preservationists etc etc. as a result of this tragedy. More efforts may be taken to preserve our heritage properly to be enjoyed by future generations. I believe God helps to bring out whatever good (however small).

Awful to see such a lovely building burn.
Great that two billionaires M Pinault and M Arnault are contributing to the rebuilding.
Looking at the front pages of the newspapers today the Telegraph has an amazing photograph of the inferno.

Religion aside, it's awful to see anything so beautiful destroyed. Not to mention the decades/centuries of dedication and toil that went into creating it.

@MrsCatE

The fire at York Minister (almost 35 years ago!) was believed to be caused by a lightning strike. The fire at Windsor Castle happened whilst renovation works were going on however the cause of the fire was thought to be due to a spotlight pressed up against a curtain.

*Oh, and God should be capitalised.

Why should it be?*

Because “God” used in this sense is a proper noun. Basic grammar.

Basic grammar.
Although all reference to related pronouns in the Bible, for instance, are also capitalised. It is customary to do so in common usage also. Although I suspect people like workingparttime would deliberately neglect to do so, just to make a point.

Would you have been prepared to write that about Allah, had it been a mosque that burned down?

Yes.*

Liar

I feel more for the Notre Dame than for the other disasters around the world because I find myself personally connected to it. Events that involve you personally naturally do, and to tell me what I should or shouldn't feel about it, I find that idea personally insulting. Who has the right to police other people on what they should feel and when it is appropriate to feel it?

It was so beautiful. It means so much to so many regardless of faith. Their distress deserves consideration.

The fireman’s family deserves unreserved sympathy and from many their gratitude for his heroic action.

I try to imagine if it were St Paul’s or Westminster. Heartbreaking.

Right now in the city of Sanaa, Yemen, an ancient UNESCO World Heritage site is being partially destroyed by bombing. A disaster for the inhabitants who feel very alone in the silence and inaction of international bodies.
France finances this war.
It's hypocritical to the max.

I cannot care for the destruction of a 160 year old steeple and the artefacts within (gained how exactly?) nestled in a city of huge wealth privelige that also finances the destruction of other cultures' beautiful and sacred places.

Western Europe can and will rebuild, tonnes of money is already flowing in so don't get your knickers in a twist about it.

Basic grammar.
Although all reference to related pronouns in the Bible, for instance, are also capitalised. It is customary to do so in common usage also. Although I suspect people like workingparttime would deliberately neglect to do so, just to make a point.

Indeed.

If we don't care about our cultural heritage going up in flames, if we feel no loss to our society everbody it seems very unlikely we are going to muster much sympathy for the destruction of others cultural heritage.
If we value and protect our own European heritage, the buildings, the art, the landscapes and the history surely we will be more able to feel for those whose cultural heritage is being destroyed by bombs or religious extremism.
Individual lives are very short and the sense of being part of something greater than stretches through the century's can be very powerful.
I feel robbed when our great buildings go up in flames so I understood the impact that Palmyra being destroyed would have on the people who knew it to be part of their culture and history, their link to their past.
I could value the bravery of the Mr Karim the Syrian archaeologist who chose to die rather than give up the location of the treasures he had hidden from destruction. He understood that protecting his cultural heritage from destruction was worth dying for.
When I saw the US soldiers stand aside in the early days of the Iraq war and let people loot the museum full of irreplaceable treasures I realized there was no hope for the war because the history of the country wasn't understood or valued.
I am a firm atheist but do not believe that this matters.

Know many people that could knock up a steeple 160 years ago Everybody? It wasn’t like they clogged them in John Lewis.

As others have said, you can feel sympathy for lots of different things at the same time. On this particular day, I think Notre Dame gets it. Tomorrow there will be another tragedy I’m sure.

I wasn't around 160 years ago TSS, but I know people now who build steeples. It's going to be good work for the right craftspeople, and it will be easily funded by those who want to see their names associated with it.

My point is still the same - it's not worth crying over.

Things burned in the Notre Dame fire. Beautiful, ancient things for sure, but still things.

People burned in the Grenfell fire.
People are more important than things.
Or they should be.

Powerful people will ensure that Notre Dame is rebuilt as quickly as possible.

Powerful people are prevaricating and obstructing the Grenfell disaster inquiry and many people are still living in temporary accommodation.

Such are the priorities in a society where things are more important than people.

Save your tears, Notre Dame is not worth crying over, but you could spend the time lobbying your MP or helping the more vulnerable in our society.

Even if it's rebuilt, it will never be the same. Not sure how some posters can't see this

Oh for goodness sake. It is possible to feel sadness for the people who died in Grenfell AND the burning of Notre Dame AND the bombing of Syria all at the same time you know. My sadness at the destruction of an ancient and beautiful building does not diminish my sadness at other tragedies one iota. I don't get why this is a difficult concept for some

Well said Alwayscrashing. I think there's a lot of virtue-signalling going on with some posters on this thread

We were there less than 2 weeks ago.. moaning at how long the queue is but wonderful inside. Id always chilled in the square outside before but never bothered to go in. I cant bear to read news or see footage of the fire, its so sad. I still cant fathom how this has happened

I'm absolutely dying to call you a fibber Everybody about knowing people that build steeples, but no one could write that sentence if it weren't true.

TSS of course there are people who can build steeples. There are master stonemasons and designers and carpenters who live and practice their craft across the world. Amazing structures get built all the time. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they have friends and families who are merely forum contributors.

I'm not saying it's not sad about the fire, it is. But I find it appalling that France, along with ourselves and the US, is contributing to the campaign that is bombing the fuck out of ancient heritage sites in Yemen and kiling civilians - I am far far sadder about that. You can't be an aggressor and still elicite sympathy when part of your own property gets damaged.

I hate the way people are now being shamed out of sorrow for the destruction of Notre Dame. My Fb feed is full of it now, the questioning and shaming of people’s responses.

Yes, there are horrors and tragedies elsewhere, yes, with horrible loss of life, yes this is a Eurocentric thing, yes Yemen and the damage the Taliban etc have done to antiquities, and so on through s catalogue of tragedy and grief.

But no one should feel shamed for expressing shock at the loss of a landmark they visited and enjoyed, the loss of an intrinsic part of a city’s skyline, a building that hardworking labourers and artisans poured their sweat into for 200 years, a building that is the focus of faith for millions of French catholics, who have drawn comfort and spiritual inspiration from it’s magnificent interior.

Our emotions are not multiple choice: pick one and discard the others.