Notre Dame fire

[DrVonPatak]

I'm just shocked, I can't believe it. I have a picture of DH and myself on bicycles in front of it on a canvas in our bedroom, one of our favourite trips, I just can't believe it went up in flames!!!

It's always devastatingly sad when an historic building is lost, especially when said building is an iconic part of a city skyline and as beautiful as Notre Dame. I am neither Parisian nor religious but am saddened by this destruction. I am sure that this ancient monument will, like the Phoenix, rise from the ashes.

And yes, I'm fully aware there's a split infinitive in there you pedants. :o

It is sad, it’s a part of history being destroyed by flames. I’m not crying over it, but i am upset that future generations will never see it like we had the chance to

Good news is the fire is under control with much less damage than feared, much less loss artwork and while it will take time and money should be able to be restored. Best part of course is no loss of life.

EverybodysTalkingatme posted:

"Sad day for humanity my arse. Sad day for architectural history, yes. But humanity? Refugees live in fear and sickness without access to basic human rights across Europe and beyond... That's a sad day for humanity.

The cathedral will be rebuilt. Hundreds of skilled craftspeople will come together to create an amazing restoration.

Nothing to cry about."

I agree with much of what you said (not the Brexit related stuff, but that's not the topic here). It was a beautiful building, but I don't see the loss of an iconic building as a tragedy in itself, because it can be rebuilt. However, one fire fighter has lost their life - that is tragic for their family and friends.

The Grenfell fire was a real tragedy, because many died and many families were made homeless. The building itself was nothing special, but it was home for hundreds of people. It's understandable that French people will mourn the loss of their beautiful cathedral, and Parisiens will miss it being part of their city, but it seems a bit OTT for people in other countries to talk about this as some huge tragic loss, when it doesn't affect their daily lives in any meaningful way.

Religious people might take comfort that many of the important relics and artefacts seem to have been saved, and in time they will be rehomed in a modern version of the cathedral, which might have new features that were not possible when the original cathedral was built, 1,000 years ago. It will be a fantastic project to work on. Meanwhile, there are human tragedies unfolding around the world on a daily basis, which can't be fixed as easily (relatively speaking).

MidniteScribbler
Bloody hell. Some people are just so clueless, I wonder how they ever have any meaningful relationships with other human beings.

Some people care more about people than about things and buildings, no matter how beautiful or historic, are ultimately just things. I think EverybodysTalkingAtMe showing concern for the miserable plight of many people over the destruction of a building indicates she or he probably doesn’t struggle to have meaningful relationships with other human beings.

As for those who have tried to make Shipley feel small, shame on you! First of all, there is no right way to feel about the destruction of any building or monument. These things mean different things to different people, depending on our histories. Why must people revere historical artefacts? I’m glad some people do, I’m glad there are people who dedicate their lives to protecting them but I respect more people who prioritise human life and wellbeing.

Making someone feel small for asking an honest question ensures they won’t ask questions in such situations again and therefore won’t learn. Some tried to educate but a fair few just put the boot in, making me wonder whether they can even articulate what they think is so special about the Notre Dame, or they just have a tendency to jump on a bandwagon.

I have visited the Notre Dame but I don’t remember being particularly overawed by it, certainly not how I was by the Louvre Palace. Maybe my focus was thrown by the Catholic accoutrements. I appreciate it as a historic building but we aren’t clones so I don’t expect EVERYONE ELSE to think as I do.

It's devastating for so many reasons. The art, the physical structure, a place of national significance, a place of worship and sanctuary, all gone. My own memories of it and going there many times with family, friends and school are so happy, so I'm hugely sad for the Parisians and the whole of the French people who adored it. It is iconic.

What is heartbreaking and devastating is that there are 73,000 displaced people and hundreds dead due to Cyclone Idai. A building burning is shocking of course, but there is no human tragedy involved.

1 million children are in need of humanitarian assistance in Mozambique, there should be threads on that. Donate here: www.unicef.org.uk/donate/cyclone-idai/

It's so heartbreaking. All that history gone.

I know someone who is an avid Trump supporter. She has been posting all day about how it is definitely not an accident and most likely the result of muslim terrorists. It's sickening how people are using such a tragedy for their own political ends.

We can mourn a 850 year old building that has seen countless important significant moments in human history without feeling guilty because other terrible events are happening. It's not exclusive and there should be empathy for people who do find it a devasting moment for architectural history and the tragic loss of art relics. Not to mention, the blow that it has been for French people and Catholics around the world as a symbol for Catholicism and French culture.

Part of my sadness is that when our generation passes away, future generations won't see Notre Dame as it was.

Why do people always have to pile in with "what about-ism" when something awful happens. Most of us are perfectly well able to feel shock and upset over an event like this AND ALSO about humanitarian disasters worldwide, as well as to donate to fund-raising efforts for both.

Is Notre Dame the smaller one and Sacre Couer the huge one at the top of a hill? I've visited both but can't remember details.

It's perfectly possible to be devastated by the Notre Dame fire, the refugee crisis, Grenfell and ANY other tragic event AT THE SAME TIME

Just because people are crushed by the loss of such an iconic historical building doesn't mean they don't give a shit about all the other tragedies that take place.

This "but what about..." bollocks, whenever someone is affected by something you're not, is getting tedious.

Yes, Notre Dame is by the river, and Sacre Coeur at the top of the steps at Montmartre.

Already money is being pledged. The Pinault family have donated €100 million. Though nothing can replace the cathedral as it was I think this shows how precious the cathedral is to Paris/France.

It is heartbreaking. I’ve been a few times, at least to the outside. I do hope that they manage to rebuild but it won’t be the same as it being 800 years old.
And yes. It was also gutting to hear of ISIS destroying historical structures and artefacts too.,

On twitter, someone went to a lecture about disaster planning for the cathedral. They wrote:

"The fire department in Paris followed a protocol: Save the people, save the art, save the altar, save what furniture you can, then focus on the structure, in that order. They know what can be rebuilt and what can't. This protocol has been in place since the last time the cathedral was destroyed, sacked during the French revolution. The steeple and the beams supporting it are 160 years old, and oaks for new beams awaits at Versailles, the grown replacements for oaks cut to rebuild after the revolution.
This is The Long Now in action. It's what happens when you maintain civilization.
Imagine how heartbreaking it must have been to follow the protocol knowing it was all you could do.
It took sixty years to rebuild after the terror. Three Napoleons worth. But it happened, and will happen again.
Versailles oaks. They're ready.
I mean, you can have a protocol, a plan of battle, as any paramilitary organization (incl. fire brigades) must have, but you still need to act on the plan. Actions require people. Paris has a priest firefighter that ran into a burning cathedral to save Jesus's crown of thorns!!"

Maybe god should have stepped in sooner

LVMH have pledged €200 million. Money can't turn back the clock but anything it can do, will be done!

You know what I find heartbreaking TeddyisaHe.
The fact that the more one gives to disaster and famine relief over the decades, the more you come to realise that all that happens is even more starving and destitute the next time round. Exercise in futility.

Maybe god should have stepped in sooner

What an unpleasant and, frankly, offensive, remark. Would you have been prepared to write that about Allah, had it been a mosque that burned down?
Oh, and God should be capitalised.

@workingparttime

Terribly ignorant and offensive.

I heard that brave firefighters (of all faiths) formed a human chain to get the Crown of Thorns and other priceless religious artefacts from the fire. Bless them all. God always wills the good out of situations.

Why do people always have to pile in with "what about-ism" when something awful happens. Most of us are perfectly well able to feel shock and upset over an event like this AND ALSO about humanitarian disasters worldwide, as well as to donate to fund-raising efforts for both

People are trying to explain why the loss of a building, even a historic one, is not such a great tragedy to them. It is relevant on this thread because earlier on people were vilified and mocked for not feeling devastated about the destruction of the Notre Dame.

That’s good news re LMVH

It’s incredibly sad, I was in Paris two weekends ago but the notre dame was all boarded up so we just walked past it.

For me I can see how awful it must be to the Parisians because it’s such an important part of their history. It’s so prominent in their city. It would be like St Paul’s burning down. I’m in no way religious but it is tragic.

TeddyIsaHe, EverybodysTalkingAtMe You've really told those posters who've been saying 'I don't care whether people are suffering because I care about Notre Dame instead'. No doubt they're squirming with shame now.

When we studied Gothic architecture in an art history class the human aspect of the structures was given some time: Many generations of labourers and craftsmen who knew that they, nor even their grandchildren, would set eyes on the finished work but who carried on nonetheless and, no doubt whatsoever, often took enormous pride in what they were creating. No doubt as well that the construction led to great suffering, injuries, and deaths. For projects like these to be maintained over centuries is remarkable.

I realise that medieval people don't supply the kindling for righteous outrage that modern ones do but still, the cathedral is not just important for architecture, art, and history.

Seems such a shame though that I'll have to cancel my standing order for MsF if I want to contribute to the rebuilding fund.