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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To chance taking DS abroad without permission

57 replies

Marmight · 15/04/2019 19:42

Arranged and booked for a 2 day stay in a European capital as a birthday treat for my teenage DS.
ExDP is refusing to either sign a letter to give me a permission or giving a reason for his refusal.
Trip is around 10 days away.
DS is obviously upset and it has been pointed out to ExDP it's not stopping me going, just his DS.
I don't think I have time to get a court order in place as its not an urgent case, even though it is time dependent.
I have taken DC abroad before with his permission. (Other DC is staying with ExDP for this trip)
AIBU to chance it without explicit permission??

OP posts:
OutdoorApathy · 15/04/2019 19:45

How old is teenage?

Original poster
Marmight · 15/04/2019 19:47

He's just into his teenage years
13
He picked the destination too

OP posts:
OutdoorApathy · 15/04/2019 19:50

I think that makes a difference. As does him knowing when and where you're leaving from. How vindictive is he and how desperate is he to ruin his relationship with his son? Other DC older or younger?

Original poster
Marmight · 15/04/2019 19:57

Other DC is younger.
They see him regularly (3 x a week) and they currently quite like him as he lets them use iPads the whole time they are with him. Never takes them anywhere. He chooses to parent them in that way and it's what the DC want.
He doesn't actually know where we are flying from.
ExDP also is trying to stop me seeing my new DP and dictating that if they are in my house, DS has to contact him.
The DC live with me f/t.
No child arrangement orders in place currently, but writing this down, I think I finally need to do something
Thanks for replying btw, much appreciated.

OP posts:
KC225 · 15/04/2019 19:58

Younger, I would have said 'No' because how would you have felt if he did it. But 13 and two days and he picked the destination........ I probably would but would not be instagramming or Face booking.

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 20:00

Does he know he can apply for a prohibited steps order? Is he likely to do it bearing in mind it costs money and he probably won't be successful?
Unless there is an active court order that the border authorities are also aware of then you won't get challenged taking him on your own. Nobody will ask you for the letter or a copy of a court order or anything.

Original poster
Marmight · 15/04/2019 20:07

We have the same surname if that helps.

He wouldn't know about prohibited steps order and would actively avoid court.

No active court order.

I had to block him on my phone last year due to abusive texts. You would think after 5 years, he would have something more exciting to do with his spare time. He's still rather bitter

OP posts:
TrickyD · 15/04/2019 20:09

Our DS has taken his DCs abroad many times without written permission from his XP and has never been questioned.

However the DCs have his surname; when his XP took the children away, an official asked "Who is this lady?" . Answer, "My mum". No problem even though her name was different from theirs

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 20:15

I have travelled alone with my DS dozens of times. We have a different surname and I have to show his birth certificate but have never been asked for father's consent.
A D.C. I spoke to told me that this is a law that is only invoked if required. Border authorities do not routinely ask for evidence of consent but will take action if there is an alert that a court order is in place. However this is also not a routine matter, it's usually something that is dealt with after the fact ie after the person has actually taken the child abroad.

beenhereages1 · 15/04/2019 20:17

I was under the impression a child could be taken out of the country for up to 4 weeks without permission?

MissMalice · 15/04/2019 20:20

You absolutely can get an urgent court order for this. I wouldn’t chance it.

Original poster
Marmight · 15/04/2019 20:22

Thanks all

I'm a bit of a 'rule follower' so just nervous if I get stopped at border control

Sounds as if no-one else has had problems which is good.

If the situation was reversed, I would have no issue with ExDP taking the DC on a trip but unfortunately for them, I can't ever see this happening.

OP posts:
Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 20:24

I was under the impression a child could be taken out of the country for up to 4 weeks without permission?

If you have a child arrangements order in place you can take the child for 2 weeks without consent. However if no court order is in place then no such provision exists in law.

Sexnotgender · 15/04/2019 20:25

I’ve taken DD away plenty of times and never had an issue.

MissMalice · 15/04/2019 20:26

If you have a child arrangements order in place you can take the child for 2 weeks without consent. However if no court order is in place then no such provision exists in law.

Not quite. www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Jingzhou · 15/04/2019 20:27

The questioning is usually very casual and unless you are on alert for it you might not notice.

‘Oh, off on holiday leaving your dad behind to do all the hard work?’

Stuff like that.

Your child needs to say ‘dad couldn’t get any time off’ rather than ‘he doesn’t live with us’.

Original poster
Marmight · 15/04/2019 20:42

@MissMalice
Urgent court order on what grounds? I've looked them up and not sure this situation fits into any of them.

@Jingzhou
Its the subtle questions I'm worried about. I don't wand DS to be under pressure and be aware that he has to lie.

Do the countries we are travelling to make a difference? Connecting flight in the nethelands with the actual destination in germany..

OP posts:
Original poster
Marmight · 15/04/2019 20:42

*want

OP posts:
JagerPlease · 15/04/2019 20:52

You won't generally encounter anyone other than airline staff until you reach your destination,only issue would be if there was a flag on your DSs passport if your ex filed any prohibited steps type order. I've flown alone with my DS, who only has half my surname, I didn't have any letter from my ex but no questions were asked (I did have consent but didn't have any letter)

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 15/04/2019 20:52

I wouldn't worry. I often travel alone with my DD and have never been asked to prove anything other than that I am her mother (we have different surnames). She's 13 and we last travelled between the UK and Germany a month ago with no problems and no questions.

ALLMYSmellySocks · 15/04/2019 20:55

I imagine you'll be fine. I've taken DC loads of time and their surnames don't match mine on their passports. Ironically I've only ever been questioned returning to the UK and the guy just asked if I was their mum (DS was ~3/4 and DD a sleeping baby) I said yes and explained I hadn't changed my surname when I got married. He just said "well they look perfectly happy so I'm sure it's fine".

ALLMYSmellySocks · 15/04/2019 20:56

To be clear I didn't even have any proof with me that I was their mother (I should have bought their birth certificates but didn't remember) and it was absolutely fine.

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 20:59

I wouldn't OP, because like you I'm a rule follower, and I know I would spend the entire time worrying that it was going to go wrong. It really sucks, though, and I'd definitely be looking into getting a court-ordered arrangement to avoid this sort of thing in future.

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 21:00

Also, if you can, I would totally go on the booked holiday (with your new DP? Or a friend?) so that it's very clear who your ex is punishing.

Frightenedbunny · 15/04/2019 21:01

My brothers ex partner took his ds abroad in Feb without my brothers permission. They never got asked for letter of consent to take him out of country x

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