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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To chance taking DS abroad without permission

57 replies

Marmight · 15/04/2019 19:42

Arranged and booked for a 2 day stay in a European capital as a birthday treat for my teenage DS.
ExDP is refusing to either sign a letter to give me a permission or giving a reason for his refusal.
Trip is around 10 days away.
DS is obviously upset and it has been pointed out to ExDP it's not stopping me going, just his DS.
I don't think I have time to get a court order in place as its not an urgent case, even though it is time dependent.
I have taken DC abroad before with his permission. (Other DC is staying with ExDP for this trip)
AIBU to chance it without explicit permission??

OP posts:

delilahbucket · 15/04/2019 21:01

I've taken ds11 abroad many times within the EU over the last five years. I have a permission letter but have never produced it. I've shown his birth certificate twice as we have a different surname, at Gatwick and Manchester, both times arriving back to the UK. Both times I offered to provide it, I was not specifically asked. The first time I was asked my relationship to him. The second time they were talking to him, and I knew he was sort of being questioned but to him it was just a chat. He was more freaked out by a security pat down! The staff were never off with us, the opposite in fact. They're just there to do a job and keep kids safe, but they're equally not daft and know when you're just going on a holiday.

Threeminis · 15/04/2019 21:02

My dad and stepmum take my ds' and dn's on holiday most years.
They have never been stopped even though they have different surnames (we have always given a letter just incase)

NC4Now · 15/04/2019 21:02

It’s never occurred to me to get permission to take my kids on holiday. I’ve never been asked either. The only thing I’ve been asked about is my relationship to them because we have different names but a quick ‘that’s my mum’ has always sufficed.

stucknoue · 15/04/2019 21:06

Nobody asked my dd at that age when I flew alone with her and her older sister. I didn't carry anything with me either (dh was already there in fact as flew ahead for work but immigration didn't know our circumstances

frogsoup · 15/04/2019 21:15

I've taken three kids all over Europe by myself and never once been asked anything. We have the same surname and look like peas in a pod, I don't know if that helps . You'd be mad not to go imo.

maloofhoof · 15/04/2019 21:16

I've taken my kids to America and many European countries, every year for the last 13 years without their father. Despite me having a different surname to them I've only ever been stopped once, on the way back from Greece. And even then it was very casual with them advising that next time I had a letter from the father, advice I've never taken 😂

Clammyclam · 15/04/2019 21:29

It feels like people are missing the point.

Forgive me if I am Wrong but I was under the impression that if one parent said you couldn't take a child out of the country then that was final.

Perhaps it's just TV sensationalism but isn't it classed as kidnap? (Although I think it an extreme response)

I don't believe this is your intention AT ALL and I do think you should be able to take him, however I think your EXP could cause some trouble here.

Again I'm going on what's been in the news/ TV recently.

Can he only cause an issue with a prior court order or could he simply go to the police and cause a whole heap of trouble?

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

The link details more.

I think you should seek professional advice.

ItWentInMyEye · 15/04/2019 21:35

We took my eldest DS to France last year for 2 weeks and even though he has a different last name to the rest of the family it wasn't an issue. I didn't take a letter from his dad, but I did take DS' birth certificate and showed it to an official on the way back into England who said it was a sensible thing to take.

RandomMess · 15/04/2019 21:40

As resident parent (by default) you don't need his permission if the trip is 2 weeks or less...

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 21:54

As resident parent (by default) you don't need his permission if the trip is 2 weeks or less...

That's not true

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 21:55

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 21:57

@clammyclam no, it wouldn't be treated as kidnap.
If the NRP didn't have a court order they could report the RP for kidnap and pursue recovery under The Hague convention if the RP didn't bring the child back. However if the RP brings the child back no criminal charges would be brought (but if anyone reported it both parents would be advised to seek a child arrangements order)

RandomMess · 15/04/2019 21:59

Arghhhhhhh that's ridiculous I get so fed up controlling ex partners doing this kind of thing they don't care about their DC.

TriciaH87 · 15/04/2019 22:02

Do you have same surname as dc? If so don't mention it. I asked my eldest father once for a letter to take him Cape Verde baring in mind father been absent since was 4 but thought I would be stopped and require it. He did not bother. My son has my name and my youngest has mine and partners. Think this makes it easier for me to travel with both and oh for our child. Never been asked and have took him out country 3 times. If they ask just say father is awol.

Fiveredbricks · 15/04/2019 22:06

You have the same surname and your passport numbers will flag up as linked and next of kin. You do not need to worry OP unless your son goes and tells him when/where the flight is. Maybe confiscate his phone for a few hours before.

Fiveredbricks · 15/04/2019 22:08

Fyi for anyone that 'needed a letter' it's a load of tosh. They can see on your passport numbers that you are linked and what that link is. If you're next of kin and there is no red tape on you travelling then they can't do sod all anyway.

Heronwatcher · 15/04/2019 22:13

If your ExP doesn’t do something you’ll be fine. If he takes action such as going to see a solicitor beforehand and getting an injunction then you could be stopped and possibly this used against you in the future. In your position I would get some legal advice both on the trip and also on future arrangements as I think this clarifies that you need something on paper. There would be time to get an emergency order to take your DS out of the country however if your ExP receives a very stern letter he may well give his consent. Sorry that you are having to deal with this, he sounds like a total bastard and I think you need a proper legal arrangement to stop this happening again.

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 22:16

Please bear in mind that he'd need a good reason to get a prohibited steps order which presumably he doesn't have?

Original poster

Marmight · 15/04/2019 22:17

Thanks again.

Yes, me and DC have same surname. I have travelled before abroad with DC with a letter and never asked for it.

It is a form of control. 5 years on and he's still at it as I left him.

Technically, I think it is child abduction as I don't have his explicit permission.

I'm going to see a solicitor tomorrow, if i can for their views.

OP posts:

Tweedypie · 15/04/2019 22:19

Most passport automated gates in European countries are for age 12 and over, I'm pretty sure it's the same for the UK, I know Stansted definitely is, there's a chance OP that you won't even need to actually see a passport control person, just get in the line to use the E Gates.
Id do it, your son has chosen the destination knows when he is going and returning and your ex is being a spectacular arse.

Wheresmyvagina · 15/04/2019 22:20

Technically it could be treated as child abduction.
But in reality it wouldn't be. If he reported you to the police they would advise him to wait until the return date had passed to see if you were planning to stay away. If you came home and he tried to report you for abduction after you were back he wouldn't get anywhere at all. Police are not keen on petty parents using them as tools to persecute their ex partners.

SquishySquirmy · 15/04/2019 22:30

Just seen in your update that your travelling through the Netherlands....

Netherlands are the most likely to ask, from my experience.

I travel to Holland with DC without dh a lot, and have always been asked as I show our passports "do you have the father's permission?" To which I reply "yes" and get waved through - they never actually ask to see anything (unless something gives them cause for suspicion like a 3 year old deciding the best time to lie about her name is when the nice lady at passport control asks )

Sorry, but I think you either have to prep your ds on what to say (eg, something very brief like dad's at home, he couldn't get time off work) or not go, I'm afraid.

You might not get asked anything, but of every country I've ever travelled through Holland is the most likely to check.

Meandwinealone · 15/04/2019 22:31

Look you need to chill out. If they ask for a letter you just say you don’t have one.
What’s the worst that’s going to happen? They’ll send you home.

It’s 2 days. By the time you’re gone and back he won’t be able to do anything about it, and if he brings it up in court (which he won’t) he will look like a fucking idiot.

You have the same surname. Literally no one in Europe is going to ask you. No one.

Don’t let him control you. He knows you’re a rule follower. He knows you’ll freak out and not go. Honestly if someone said I couldn’t take my kid away for 2 days I would laugh in their face.

Literally no court of law is going to take this seriously.

Or the other side is, you go along with him and make it clear to your ds that’s it’s his fathers doing. At least then he might get some of the truth.

Whatever happens, this is going to back fire on your ex massively

Get a back bone. and do what you want

AriadnePersephoneCloud · 15/04/2019 22:35

I've flown with my children, three of whom have different surnames to mine, and never been asked anything. I have always had consent to travel letters on me but have never had to produce them. Maybe tell eldest on the way to the airport that his dad said yes he should go, so if asked anything, eldest is not lying... As far as he knows

Meandwinealone · 15/04/2019 22:39

Actually I would just tell your son tomorrow that the trip is over because dad won’t allow him to go.

Fuck it. Let him deal with the shit from that. I can tell you now. A 13 year old will go batshit over that

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