Do I have a good chance with an appeal for PIP

[pipappealproblems]

disclaimer, not a begging post! Just want advice & maybe other people's experiences!
I've claimed PIP for a few years now and recently had an assessment and was told my claim had been stopped.

Without going into too much detail I have a few mental health conditions that meant I had to stop working before I started claiming as I couldn't leave the house & was having issues with bad anxiety, panic attacks and depression. (Brought on I think from previous work stress but also triggered from childhood issues)

I have received therapy on the NHS but not much, 5 sessions only. Been on and off various anti depressants as struggled with side effects.

I live with my partner but obviously as my income stopped (when I left work) that was stressful for us as he had to take on all bills for us, I got advised to apply for PIP by my GP as she said that could help me live and supplement our income and reduce the money worries that were actually worsening my mental health.

Was successful with my claim and since then nothing has changed, in fact my mental health has gotten worse and I'm not coping most days, usually in bed all day or struggling with panic attacks.

The PIP assessment basically said that since I could move by myself, feed myself, clothe myself etc that I was not eligible for a claim anymore.

I don't understand how that can be? I can't work, my life is miserable and I'm really not coping, my poor GP has been so good and tried to get me referred for more therapy but I've been waiting over a year now and the wait for an NHS psychiatrist is even longer in my area.

Do I have a hope in hell of a successful appeal?

I've tried so much as well to help myself mentally, I manage to go for walks at night a few times a week (less people out then and I don't feel like people look at me at night iyswim?) and I also do some yoga at home but I'm exhausted from the panic attacks and depression.

I feel like a failure. I had a career I enjoyed before and now it's all lost because my mind can't cope.

Thank you

pipappeal if you attended well kempt, nearly dressed and engaged appropriately with adequate eye contact, no signs of distress, not withdrawn etc, then they have used this as evidence. With MH conditions, it is all about how the assessor perceives you and they have 'informal observations' that they are looking at from the second you enter the waiting room. Answering their questions is just half of the assessment and they are taking a mental note from the first minute

**neatly

@VoleClock Thank you, I'll stick to the free guides for now but definitely keep that in mind!

I think a lot of people get confused between PIP and ESA, PIP is a payment you receive when you have a disability that means you cannot live a normal day to day life! You cant cook for yourself OR forget to eat due to your condition, you cant take your medication by yourself OR forget due to your condition, whether you can bathe and dress yourself etc its whether you meet each criteria, if you can get up feed, dress and clean yourself as well as remember to take medication and walk a certain distance, you don't 'need' PIP

ESA is Employment Support Allowance, this is a benefit that helps people with disability's that cannot work but that can still look after them self! Do you claim ESA? You can receive up to £111 a week x

@Claracuckoo Thank you, I feel like giving up but that's what they want like you said!

I read about quite a few MS sufferers having to appeal and being successful almost 100% of the time. Apparently a lot of assessors/dwp people got told off as it's an 'ineffective system' (which it is)

@HJWT I don't know about ESA, is it based on your partners income too?

Just to pick up on something you said earlier... ie washing dressing being a yes / no answer, well you have to say on a bad day ... blah blah. You don’t give a yes or a no. Ever. Explain, explain and explain.

For example, I have Addison’s disease and asthma. Bad combination. On a bad day I can’t shower at all as I am too exhausted. On a slightly better day I will need to hold the edges of the shower to get myself in and then I won’t have the strength to stand so will sit on the floor or on a stool in the shower. I then take a 30 mins break after getting out of the shower before I am able to get dressed as I am so exhausted.

So if someone is being picky, yes I can get washed and dressed but not in any sense of a normal way.

I scored full marks for pip on this particular point and many others. (I was awarded pip first try. I may have just been lucky however but you really need to be careful how you word EVERYTHING).

@pipappealproblems yes have you tried a benefit calculator x

Fairy I was awarded first time and then again first time on reassessment. I was as descriptive as I could be explaining things, just like you in the shower. I can raise my arms above my head but I can't keep them raised to wash my hair. It's the detail that make the difference.

If your spending more time in bed your not washing & dressing, possibly not eating properly either. Not having care/motivation due to condition is legitimate reason even if physically you could, its hard to admit that.

The appeal is all based around how you were at time filled in claim form. I was told not to say I was worse because then its a reason start a new claim. Chances are most claiments MH will have declined due to the stress & financial strain of this shit.

@HJWT I have but it's always come up as not eligible for anything? Could it be my partners income? He earns £22,000 a year.

@AdvancedAvoider the thing was though whenever I tried to explain anything she'd go back to the question and say is it yes/no? She never wrote anything I said down and I explained quite a bit to be fair!

And yes you do have a very good chance! The latest stats from the tribunal were that 74 percent of PIP decisions were getting overturned. That gives you some indication of how poor the assessment process/decision making is!

Honestly, get your GP to write a clear letter setting out how your condition affects you. Medical evidence is the best thing you can have.
Its difficult with mental health because it seems like half the country takes some sort of antidepressant medication, so if all they have to go on is that you take a standard antidepressant and see your GP, with no psychiatrist and no other meds it's hard for them to justify why you would need extra help. Not that you don't just that the DWP have to justify why they give it to you and not someone else. If they can't even support it by saying you looked unwell / unwashed etc. they've really got nothing.
Write your reconsideration being clear about each activity, what can you manage - if food is made for you will you eat it? Or do you need someone to actually tell you to eat? Personally I wouldn't start writing stuff about not being able to choose the right clothing for the weather, you're depressed not cognitively impaired, but getting dressed might seem like too much effort, be realistic - how often do you get dressed? Do you bother getting undressed at night? Do you bother putting clean clothes on? Clean pyjamas? Is it all too much? Does having someone prompt you actually work? Get someone who knows you well to write it for you if you need to and get them to check what each activity actually means, reading for example only means can you read if you have to, not do you want to, or can you concentrate for long enough to read a book. There are some really good guides you can use.
Good luck with it all, hopefully the process will go smoothly for you, as a previous poster mentioned tribunals often go better than assessments but it can take a while.

I’d also recommend this website. Reliability is a key concept but they rarely assess it properly. You need to be able to do something to an acceptable standard and repeatedly etc. Just being able to do something once doesn’t mean you can do it reliably

pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

Pip is an in work benefit so it focuses on what you can and can't do for yourself eg with washing it's a case of can you physically wash yourself (yes) but also does someone need to remind you to wash because your mental health issues means you can't process that you need to wash without prompting. Same goes for eating - dd for instance can cook but unless I remind her to eat she won't, and if I'm not around all day she just goes hungry, and she only eats carbs unless a sit next to her (she's an adult) so you need a copy of your form back and see whether you actually can do what you stated, and need to break down where you need money for extra help (remember this isn't about rent it's the extra costs of a disability eg dd can't use a tin opener at 20, nor cut hard things so I buy her pre cut carrots if I'm making her cook (I need to try to get her independent).

I hope this helps. ESA is a benefit to replace working but it's means tested

It is frustrating. I have a host of conditions, none of which are deemed serious enough for help but still affect me
HS - I spend a lot on dressings, antibiotics, clothes replacement as they stain and don't always come out. Time off work for surgery, pain relief for it. Antibiotics are covered on pre pay but I often have to buy my own dressings and also sterile scalpels to drain my own abscesses grim
Neutropenia - immunocompromised for life, pay for weekly injections (pre pay luckily!), try to avoid ill people at work so I don't get unwell myself, constant exhaustion and side effect from the injections
Cholinergic urticaria - 4 antihistamines a day which luckily are cheap if I buy in bulk

OP the main thing here to focus on (and i have just been through the same and got it back) is there has been no change since you were previously awarded.

They can't just stop it, the onus is on them to prove there has been some kind of change in circumstances since you originally applied.

There is some good info on this site - I have linked to the area in question- 'supersessions' it is called,

pipinfo.net/issues/supersessions

I have also been through this - twice - and each time they tried to give different facts and made errors, and tried to interpret the descriptors in different ways, it is a nightmare.

Got it back in the end though, and most recently before even went to appeal- they (DWP) rang when they realised their mistake - but only after MR- and reinstated it.

Just keep going, look at the info on that site (or with some help) HTH- and try not to take it personally. It boils down to facts and having the original decision can help, in some cases.

Oh, also forgot to manage mine even went up!- after all the fuss as they gave the mobility part too...so that applies to MH as well.

These were the things they said about me which were overturned on appeal-

Have 'no formal diagnosis'- a lie, had not read the paperwork perhaps
Have 'no physical problems'- no as mainly MH
have no cognitive problems / orientated in time and space- yes I agreed but does not take whole impact of conditions. also did no memory tests

think that was basically it, that was their argument for taking it away..but their assessment report was a mess really and didn't make sense.

So sorry you're going through this, OP.

I second what everyone else says about using the advice guides and targetting your answers to the descriptors (rather than literally answering the Questions – they're sometimes not well phrased).

Short version:
• for activities where you have difficulty, don't answer "Yes, but...". Answer "No, unless..."
• remember the descriptors include Repeatedly, Reliably, Safely and Within a Reasonable Timeframe (sorry, my phrasing, can't remember exact wording).

So Fairylea, if you have to sit in the shower and then take a 30 min break before getting dressed, you can say that you need aids to shower and showering takes you (say) 45 mins in total, because the rest period has to be built in.

Please don't pay anything to access a website to help you with your Mandatory Reconsideration letter. There is loads of info on the Citizens Advice website about the descriptors, suggestions of how to word the application and the points awarded.

Your local CAB will be able to help you draft a letter, as long as you are within the time limit for seeking a MR. If you have passed the 30 day limit you can seek an extension - agian CAB will help you and/or info on the website www.citizensadvice.org.uk

They will also do a general benefits check with you - you may be entitled to "new style" ESA under the UC system if yo have paid enough NI, otherwise it will be UC with an element to reflect you are unable to work. Your household income will be taken into account.

Helpful thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3497761-To-ask-for-help-with-PIP-descriptors-and-regulations

The OP won her tribunal!

I work for Citizens Advice, if you can get to your local bureau or give them a call they will have form fillers who do lots of MRs and appeals. Like a previous poster said, something like 70% of decisions are overturned on appeal so it is worth sticking with it if you can. Good luck!

VanCleefArpels "Please don't pay anything to access a website to help you with your Mandatory Reconsideration letter. There is loads of info on the Citizens Advice website about the descriptors, suggestions of how to word the application and the points awarded"

CAB in my area is so overloaded they won't see you unless you've gone through the whole form-filling process, been knocked back at F2F, failed MR and are going to Tribunal.
I could not find any other welfare support agencies within 20 miles.

The Benefits and Work guides were a huge help to me.
The Benefits and Work website isn't just any old random website, it's run by two people to help others and it operates on a shoestring.
"It is unique amongst benefits information providers in that it asks for no funding or support from the government, local authorities, grant making trusts or large companies. Every penny of Benefits and Work's revenue comes from its subscribing members.

This complete independence means that Benefits and Work is free to publish information that makes it deeply unpopular with the Department for Work and Pensions, multinationals with an interest in benefits - such as Atos Healthcare, Unum Provident and Capita - and even other advice providers whose dependence on state and corporate funding may have made them reluctant to tell the whole truth."
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/about-us