Do I have a good chance with an appeal for PIP

[pipappealproblems]

disclaimer, not a begging post! Just want advice & maybe other people's experiences!
I've claimed PIP for a few years now and recently had an assessment and was told my claim had been stopped.

Without going into too much detail I have a few mental health conditions that meant I had to stop working before I started claiming as I couldn't leave the house & was having issues with bad anxiety, panic attacks and depression. (Brought on I think from previous work stress but also triggered from childhood issues)

I have received therapy on the NHS but not much, 5 sessions only. Been on and off various anti depressants as struggled with side effects.

I live with my partner but obviously as my income stopped (when I left work) that was stressful for us as he had to take on all bills for us, I got advised to apply for PIP by my GP as she said that could help me live and supplement our income and reduce the money worries that were actually worsening my mental health.

Was successful with my claim and since then nothing has changed, in fact my mental health has gotten worse and I'm not coping most days, usually in bed all day or struggling with panic attacks.

The PIP assessment basically said that since I could move by myself, feed myself, clothe myself etc that I was not eligible for a claim anymore.

I don't understand how that can be? I can't work, my life is miserable and I'm really not coping, my poor GP has been so good and tried to get me referred for more therapy but I've been waiting over a year now and the wait for an NHS psychiatrist is even longer in my area.

Do I have a hope in hell of a successful appeal?

I've tried so much as well to help myself mentally, I manage to go for walks at night a few times a week (less people out then and I don't feel like people look at me at night iyswim?) and I also do some yoga at home but I'm exhausted from the panic attacks and depression.

I feel like a failure. I had a career I enjoyed before and now it's all lost because my mind can't cope.

Thank you

You need to focus on the things which mean you need extra money. E.g. can't clean house (need for cleaner), can't use public transport (hence having to pay for taxis), that sort of thing I'd imagine.
Why does your illness mean you need extra money basically. I think that's why they give it out anyway.

When you had your reassessment forms through did you have the old style or the new tick box one?

You really have to focus on what you can't do and cleaning the house as suggested by pp isn't something they'll consider.

Have you requested the Mandatory Reconsideration yet?

You would think so wouldn't you but sadly needing help with shopping taxis etc is not covered by any of the descriptors so it's really hard to get especially for MH issues. I have a diagnosis of Agoraphobia, Panic Disorder and GAD but the Physiotherapist who visited me for a whole 20 minutes said I was well dressed had a tidy house and was very intelligent so she didn't think I had any MH issues. She also put I went out for at least an hour every day when actually go out only a few times a year with a huge amount of help needed! I was turned down and am waiting for my Tribunal (13 months so far) since I first applied .

None of the above are taken into account for PIP e.g housework, use of taxis. Nor is it for those unable to work. To qualify, you have to satisfy the conditions for each of the 10 daily living and 2 mobility activities. They look at both the physical and emotional obstacles. For example, you may be able to physically wash your body, but is there evidence to suggest you lack the motivation to do so for a majority of days? Did you appear unkempt or withdrawn at the consultation? Are you receiving ongoing specialist input or support from a CPN?

Nobody will qualify based on the diagnosis of a medical condition. It is simply how you can or cannot manage the relevant activities.

@Fjfs That's what I did explain in the assessment. The financial impact, like you said money for private taxis as I can't do trains/buses, the money I spend on being in the house all day (extra water, electric etc), the fact that I can't even buy myself food as I have no money because I can't earn due to my illness.

The lady didn't write any of it down though! She must have typed maybe 5 sentences total it seemed, and she kept interrupting me to ask more tick box questions with yes/no answers.

@AdvancedAvoider pretty sure it was tick box as she asked yes/no questions and clicked around on her mouse a lot, she barely typed anything I explained to her!

Yes we've requested it but honestly I think they'll just say the same.

I've been reading horror stories online about poor families with disabled children/adults who can't do anything, being denied PIP. Surely there's no hope for me then?

@dancingthroughthedark That's terrifying to me, 13 months? Appalling. There's no bloody mental health help anyway so how can I get better? The wait list for the NHS is so long! As if I could afford private therapy. The sick thing is, I probably could afford private therapy if I actually got the PIP payment!

Good luck, it must be so stressful.

You have an excellent chance at appeal and no one is going to ask about your expenditure. Go through the assessor's report and list where you feel the wrong number of points was given and why. for example, have they failed to note things you said on the day, not asked pertinent questions at all, misunderstood or misrepresented what you've said (for example, my daughter's assessor wrote that she read newspapers daily, when what she actually said was that she sometimes looks at celebrity gossip articles linked on facebook...). You can also challenge any failure on the part of the decision maker to take your evidence and answers on the form into account when making the decision. Once all that is written down and sent to the DWP, it's really about waiting for a date and not letting their vaguely threatening letters deter you.

A severe disability is inherently going to have a financial impact, not least because of the lack of opportunity to enhance your career, work overtime and all the other things you would otherwise do to cover living expenses. So there won't be any specific questioning in that regard.

The PIP assessment basically said that since I could move by myself, feed myself, clothe myself etc that I was not eligible for a claim anymore.

I don't understand how that can be? I can't work

have you looked at the describtors? it looks at things like dressing and washing, feeding yourself. it is not a benefit linked to being able to work. Plenty of people work and get pip. If you are working or not is not relevant stricktly speaking.

@PlaydoughBarbershop I was washed & clean, well presented when I went to the assessment (which I told her was a big deal anyway as I struggle to get out the house during the day!) I made an effort as I wanted them to take me seriously.

Maybe I should have gone unwashed & in a duvet?

My GP has said she'll gladly write a letter with supporting evidence to send off as well. I'm always so pale & big dark circles under my eyes from stress and tiredness. Definitely not the epitome of health!

Yes I definitely lack motivation many days to not wash or keep the house tidy, even bother to cook for myself! My DP has to force me to eat sometimes as I just want to sleep or my stomach is in knots with anxiety.

The thing was she just said 'can you wash/bathe yourself unaided' and it was a yes/no question so I said yes as obviously physically I can do that. There were no questions that related to mental health/feelings etc.

@SilverDragonfly1 Thank you for the advice, really appreciate it, they twisted my words too! I said I struggle to prepare food sometimes due to tiredness/lack of energy and she put 'can prepare food and eats regular meals' NOT TRUE! I'm so skinny it's ridiculous.

I should also have asked if you've requested a copy of the assessors report yet? They have to send it out and you can then go through what isn't true in the report.

It's vital though that you get outside help to build your case, so Citizens Advice Bureau, Fightback or similar.

The assessor will note your appearance, whether you had a handbag, how you appeared and walked.

@theonewiththecats I feel like I really didn't get the whole idea of the assessment I just answered truthfully yes/no and she didn't take any of my other answers into consideration, there is no 'sometimes/maybe/rarely' box to tick.

I've fucked it all up.

@AdvancedAvoider Yes I have the notes, I think I'm going to sit down with my partner tomorrow and go through it all and pick it apart.

I didn't take an expensive handbag and dressed smartly but no makeup/fancy jewellery etc. I wanted to make a good impression.😞

Oh and you being physically able to wash and shower doesn't mean you can't get points if you need prompting all the time. It's all in how your answers are worded.

Google pip descriptors. They give the points for each section. That way you can figure out which apply to you. Also Mind website explains how the pip descriptors can apply to mental health. For example, unable to bathe/shower due to depression most of the time etc. It’s a pain in the Ass But please do a mandatory reconsideration then tribunal if needed. CAB can also help with pip appeals xx

My daughter's assessor did this. Kept saying 'oh, I'm just asking about the physical side' and then never returning to the psychological side. So you would highlight that not having been brought up and what you would have told her if it had been, and how many points you would expect to be awarded/ had awarded last time. Very logical and clear, a new paragraph for each descriptor, any further comments about the process at the end. It takes a while to do and is bloody horrible, but once you have all the information in order you can use it for any further correspondence and as notes on the day.

This whole thing is looking like a mountain of work to do now, I wish she'd listened to me in the appointment as I did say these things and what a typical day looked like for me.

I'm exhausted and can't even begin to think about starting writing it all.😫

Thank you all for your advice I'll definitely refer back and might contact CAB for help with it.

I've fucked it all up. Well no, the government have. The amount of prep that actually needs to go into filling in the form and having the assessment is immense. If you don't know the buzzwords, which aspects of your daily life need to be particularly mentioned, what the assessor will be likely to count for and against you on the day and so on, you are going to come to grief at some point- maybe not at the initial award but certainly at a future renewal.

@SilverDragonfly1 it's so exhausting, I'm desperate honestly, that money (wasn't much, but enough!) helped me to lead a semi independent life and not have to rely on my DP constantly. I feel shit that he pays for all the bills now on his own and I don't like to eat too much or buy more expensive foods as I feel guilty.

MH is a silent killer I swear.

You need to get hold of the discriptors for the points and then do a Mandatory Reconsideration Notice.

I do these for work all the time - got a 100% success rate at the moment.

If they say that you have "zero" points for say "dressing yourself" then put that in a paragraph and say underneath something like.

"I think this decision is wrong because I often need prompting to dress myself. I often don't notice the type of weather that it is and may chose inappropriate clothing or feel too depressed to dress at all"

You need to go through all the points like this one by one.

I can't stress enough how important it is to include medical evidence. So if you have a GP report stating your difficulties or therapist or even a group like "headway" or something - letters, statements, reports - even examples of days that were difficult.

For instance if you are normally okay on the bus but if you have had a terrible night's sleep and are feeling paranoid and vulnerable and something happens such as a route change on the bus then you would have difficulty "journey planning" even on a familiar route.

I have attached the list of points below - you need to get 12 in each category to get the payment.

I hope this helps - it is time consuming and you should NEVER EVER lie but you should always answer the question as if it is a "bad" day and not a good day.

If you can't do something on a day when your medication isn't working or you are feeling particularly down/stressed/anxious about something then describe you trying to do that activity on a bad day - such as washing - maybe on a bad day you just "don't see the point in getting up and washing and your carer/support worker/husband has to prompt you many times to get in the shower etc...

I hope this helps....

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf

Join Benefits and Work for the guides they have on how to appeal.

These are the descriptors and the options of points you will have been awarded using the face to face assessment.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

Now you have the assessor's report, use the B+W guides to dissect the report and write the actual way your life is affected.

Don't be put off if you get nowhere at Mandatory Reconsideration, go to Tribunal if you need to. It can be a long and difficult process

If you can afford spend about £20 to join the website Benefits and Work - they have excellent guides to all the forms for PIP and other benefits - including reassessments an dappeals -and explain in great detail the way points are allocated under each descriptor and there is one guide specifically written about mental health issues. The guides are long and it is a mammoth task but as you got it before and your condition has not improved then you should still be eligible. I know it is hard work - did it all with my partner - good luck, OP.

@alittlequinnie thank you, yes I suppose you're right, answer it all as a bad day.

My GP is happy to provide evidence and she's mentioned before she's appalled that some of her patients have been turned down pip. People that literally have carers and long term/terminal conditions!

The government really hate disabled people and MH conditions don't they!

About 70% cases are being awarded at tribunal so its definitely worth appealing. Its cheap for DWP to do this & hope claimant's give up.
There's a method to completing the claim forms so you can scupper your chances. You'll have to follow the process of mandatory reconsideration before can take appeal to tribunal. I went from 0 points to being awarded at tribunal, took nearly 2yrs from first putting claim in (probably be few months for you) but the tribunal itself wasn't as scary as I expected they just asked fair questions more what I'd expected at assessment. Its similar in that there assessing before you even get into room. If you need better evidence of conditions you have time to get some.

If you can, find a welfare rights advisor to help through the process it makes it much easier, sadly lots lost funding & are now overwhelmed by cases due to poor assessments so many go to appeal. Depending on condition some courts aren't ideal I.e if you can make it to the room your mobility will be deemed OK.

This site was a great help to me, they usually have a discount code on the email newsletter.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk