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AIBU?

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Original poster

Easter Roast

108 replies

Calm33 · 15/04/2019 13:18

Over the past couple of years I have been cooking Roast lamb for the Easter Sunday which everyone seems to enjoy and was wondering if it is true that New Zealand lamb is all halal?

Its just that my guests would object to this way of killing and I know they have stopped going into certain restaurants i.e. Nando's.
I also feel not inclined to eat Halal meat and find it seems quite hidden now in many shops and restaurants and many people don't realise they are eating it.

OP posts:
MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 15:49

If 1/4 of british lamb is not prestunned it is definitely in general circulation

the list of supermarkets someone linked upthread had 3 i think that guaranteed not pre stunned and the rest had no statements

I'm not an expert but this seems there are stats that are wildly at odds on here and teh impication seems to be that rspca are not being straightforwrad for some reaosn / or are lying with an agenda they are not being straight about

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 15:57

google tells me uk is 4.4% muslim and lots of them won;t be looking for non stunned meat

clearly non stunned is not just in specilaist halal shops
unless it is exported? seems unlikely though as we import so much lanb

for sure there are questions here that aren't clear

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 15:59

another link from farmers weekly

www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/sheep/pressure-mounts-to-end-non-stun-sheep-slaughter

"The National Sheep Association (NSA) said it was “surprised” to find this figure so high, as this appeared to be out of line with market demand."

Is it CHEAPER not to stun them, quicker or something.
As simple as saving on the electricity bill?

stucknoue · 15/04/2019 16:02

All New Zealand lamb is stunned. Most major supermarkets insist on it here (even halal). As for what to eat, mutton (2 year old) or hoggett (1 year old) tastes better than lamb!

ImHastingsDarling · 15/04/2019 16:29
  • Most Halal meat is stunned btw

100% of Kosher meat is not

never understood why halal is the bad guy but kosher never gets a mention - odd that*

Qwhite odd indeed

ImHastingsDarling · 15/04/2019 16:31

As an aside do guests really question the slaughter method of their hosts lamb?
Do they ask if the eggs to make the custard are free range? The coffee beans fair trade?

LimeKiwi · 15/04/2019 16:43

I'm another one who doesn't really "get" why people would have no problem eating slaughtered animals one way but a problem with another.
If you're OK eating dead animals, to me it's all the same.
Oh, and I'm a meat eater. Have no problem eating burgers from our local takeaway that is halal.

LimeKiwi · 15/04/2019 16:45

As an aside do guests really question the slaughter method of their hosts lamb?

Good point, how does that even come up in conversation lol? It's not something that generally gets spoken about. You just eat your host's meal, or I would anyway

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 17:06

That's up to you Lime but orgs like RSPCA believe that animals suffer less if stunned so it's not unreaosnable for people to prefer to eat meat that has been stunned before slaughter.

I mean if an animal had been tortured for fun before being killed would that make no odds either?

In that case we might as well chuck all animal welfare standards out the window.

Lots of people eat eggs but are horrified by battery hens, that's an understandable reaction I think? Maybe not one you agree with but you can see why others might feel that way.

mistygrl · 15/04/2019 17:11

I've seen videos of non halal slaughter.

I've been in the presence of halal slaughter. The halal one seemed much more natural and less cruel.

Not really helping towards the thread sorry just wanted to point this out for people who are saying it's more cruel.

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 17:13

RSPCA says it's more cruel. If not stunned I mean.

Not just opinions on people on thread,

If we are all being advised incorrectly by leading animal welfare charity then that's a serious issue isn't it

I wonder if it's just cost cutting as % of non stunned meat is totally out of step with demand (as per farmers weekly).

mistygrl · 15/04/2019 17:17

Just saying my experience. I felt totally different before seeing it.

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 17:23

if rspca are wrong and advocating les humane practices to extent of pushing for changing laws that is a major issue though isn't it

mistygrl · 15/04/2019 17:25

Yes menu a major issue.

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 17:33

So what do you recommend people do?

What do you believe is their motivation in pushing for a less humane method of slaughter while claiming it is more humane? All I can think of is there's money in it for them somewhere (bribed by the comapnies who supply the kit to stun) OR as others have mentioned, racism. Although they are OK with stunned meat irrespective.

You think they are rotten? Lots of stuff coming out about charities lately so I wouldn't be surprised. the only motivation I can see is money thouhg.

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 17:34

The outdoor are only just being born.

Nope, we have lambs that are nearly 4 months old.

Technonan · 15/04/2019 17:36

MenuPlant I'm sure they stun the coca cola first.

Halal meat is bled before the animal is dead. Most of it, but not all, is pre-stunned. If it isn't pre-stunned, it's very cruel, pre-stunned, it's about as cruel as most slaughter which isn't brilliant TBH. I'm not sure about NZ meat.

Gronky · 15/04/2019 17:41

Regarding throat slitting without stunning, unfortunately, cows have additional arteries in the neck which means that they can survive (conscious) for several minutes before the brain is sufficiently deprived of blood for unconsciousness. Even in sheep, consciousness can last for more than 10 seconds while stunning is nearly instantaneous (the shockwave progresses through the brain faster than the nerves can register).

The reason there is an issue for some Muslims with stunning is that the process is irreversible. That is, the animal is knocked out permanently. Different groups have deemed this to constitute killing the animal while others have not (Halal requires the animal to be 'alive' when the throat is slit) hence why some Muslims object to stunned meat while others do not.

MenuPlant · 15/04/2019 17:44

Technonan all of what you just told me is covered in the links I have put on the thread

Although RSPPCA figures are 35% of UK meat is not stunned, while that means the majority is stunned it's still a large number of animals not, and much larger than demand (see farmers world link)

Thatsashame · 15/04/2019 18:20

Halal meat is only truely halal if the animal has had a good quality of life. Looked after. Treated with kindness, fed and watered and kept in good health. If any of these things do not happen then the meat is halal regardless of prayer and slaughter.

I have seen non halal slaughter houses which treat animals horribly.

Next when it comes to slaughter yes a prayer must be read but also the animal must not see another animal being killed nor be scared. It must be killed bh one slit with the sharpest knofe to limit the pain and have an instant death..

Most muslims allow stunning. However it is not always guarenteed to work and you do not know if the animal can still feel it. The killing must be instant.

All blood must be drained from the animal too.

Thatsashame · 15/04/2019 18:21

Halal is not just about a orayer. It is actually the whole welfare of the animal before and after. Many dont know this and it isnt talked about very often which is sad. Muslim btw

justarandomtricycle · 15/04/2019 18:29

I don't think it matters why. I mean I consider vegan diets and sensibilities worthless personally, but all I want to do when I cook for a vegan is be kind and considerate in doing so.

Personally I wouldn't seek out halal or eg kosher for an Easter feast for religious Christians as it wouldn't feel quite for me - these religions are at odds over the Person Easter is all about, i would probably make that choice without mentioning it. In the same way I would always use separate pans to cook for a vegan, so I think there could be other reasons than some of those speculated about here.

Weedsnseeds1 · 15/04/2019 19:12

menuplant no I'm not saying the figures are wrong, I'm questioning if it is the percentage of meat actually sold as halal, or a percentage of that slaughtered halal.
Which is a higher amount as an abattoir can be slaughtering 100% halal but e.g. only selling 25% as halal with remainder sold as conventional.
A PP asked if we export lamb. Yes, we export quite a lot as the demand here is for legs and loins, so front ends are exported. In turn we import from NZ as it's cheaper and we can pick and choose the bits we want, not the whole carcass

Butterflycookie · 15/04/2019 19:15

Most nandos aren’t halal. Well not the ones near to me

Heyha · 15/04/2019 20:05

Good point @thatsashame I had forgotten about the welfare requirements for halal. I'm sure I read somewhere that there was a chap setting up a farm so customers requiring halal could visit and be satisfied of the quality of life of animals reared there. I reckon it was organic as well, very enterprising.

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