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AIBU?

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Original poster

Twittlebee woodland saga continued

148 replies

TwittleBee · 12/04/2019 11:51

Here is a new thread as requested!
(link to old thread here)

To answer a few questions from last thread...

We haven't any photos, that I am aware, of the woodland over past 10 years. If we do they will most likely be unidentifiable as our woodland anyway. But Google Maps/Earth has been something we have already looked at and it is pretty clear I think that there hasnt been any clearing since recently, especially from the road side view.

We havent been confrontational and havent ripped down the fences because we really didnt want to get prosecuted and as stated previously, this man is pretty intimidating. I wouldnt be surprised if he had a few mates that could back him up; I think that is why our other neighbours arent wanting to get involved now (or perhaps they really are just happy with the money offered and cant be bothered to be involved?).

There is no planning permission for the woodland - but if there was wouldnt the CF need to present us with a Notice and complete a certificate anyway?

Title information is all updated and correct but hadnt thought about contacting Land Reg ourselves direct about this. Tbh we have been rather reliant on Dad's our solicitor.

We have instructed our solicitor to respond accordingly to the letter stating that this is our land still and contest their claim etc.

Really appreciating the support btw!

OP posts:
LikeYouSaid · 14/04/2019 01:45

I really wish your neighbours had stood their ground, nothing worse than a CF’er getting their own way Angry

SchadenfreudePersonified · 14/04/2019 13:44

you have to demonstrate that you have been in possession of the land for 12 years, exclusively, openly and without force or permission.

THIS

You have visited the land on occasions - so they have not used it exclusively; they have not, before erecting this fence and chopping down your trees openly demonstrated that they have been using it, and they haven't asked for and been denied permission.

As I understand it (and I admit that my knowledge of law is sketchy at best), the land has to have been openly and obviously tended with the knowledge of the owner - an owner who has not bothered to tell the user to bugger off - for 12 years before possession can be claimed.

Fight this CF every inch of the way - this is war to the very knife!

CanuckBC · 14/04/2019 21:19

I can’t believe how they have intimidated the neighbours!!! I would go talk to them and offer to buy it instead. That you are NOT losing your land.

What does your solicitor say?

malpa · 14/04/2019 23:40

We havent been confrontational and havent ripped down the fences because we really didnt want to get prosecuted and as stated previously, this man is pretty intimidating. I wouldnt be surprised if he had a few mates that could back him up

OP, I can understand avoiding face-to-face confrontation (banging on the door and demanding the fence be removed), but what can the CF do if you removed the fence? By assuming he has "mates that could back him up" you are allowing yourself to be intimidated.

And if he does try to stop you (with or without his mates), you call the police. He has no say in this at all and the sooner he understands that, the better. This has been going on for months and the CFs are ignoring your words/letters. Enough is enough.

Criminal damage. It can be criminal damage to paint a fence, let alone take one down.

@PCohle, If somebody left their stuff on your property for at least four months and ignored your request for it to be removed, would you just leave it there indefinitely? OP can remove whatever she wants from her land. Plus, it should be possible to remove the fencing without damaging it too much. Being prosecuted for criminal damage is unlikely in this situation.

It's certainly not clear cut and given how bullish the neighbours have been, it's a course of action I'd be very wary of.

Even more of a reason to take action. The CFs' sole tactic is based on bullying/intimidation - take that away and they have nothing. Don't forget that these people are spending time and money while doing work on the land, which will spur their intentions. They need to be stopped ASAP. They should have been stopped months ago before their plan gathered too much momentum.

It's not "clear cut"? OP has the deeds and clearly owns the land! Confused

OP, just to clarify: I'm not raging at you; I'm raging for you. Be strong!

billybagpuss · 15/04/2019 06:41

What is your next course of action op what have your solicitors suggested

MyNameIsJane · 15/04/2019 07:05

I’m annoyed on your behalf. I hope you can get it sorted.

youarenotkiddingme · 15/04/2019 07:31

Agree with poster above.

You need to act how you know you can act as it's your land. Without engaging with CF.

If bullying is their tactic once you removed yourself from being bullied - they have nothing.

Original poster
TwittleBee · 15/04/2019 07:46

Plan of action today will be to contact Land Reg regarding the woodland, just see what they can do to help.

We've already instructed our solicitor to respond accordingly to the previous letter, that should be going back out to them this week.

Debating getting the tree officer involved. I know as it's our land we still have responsibility if anything has gone wrong there... We really can't be facing a fine on top of everything else (although it does appear the TPOs are safe).

OP posts:
AmIAWeed · 15/04/2019 07:53

If to your knowledge the trees with a TPO haven't been touched I'd still want to go to the tree officer. Outline what has happened, how you've responded and ask them what advice they can give to further protect. Perhaps they could come with you to clearly mark any trees with a TPO so you can demonstrate you've taken reasonable action to protect? Asking for their advice before there's a problem will go down much better than waiting until there is a problem, although my next point would be about nesting birds and if they could be causing damage by 'maintenance' I'm sure the tree officer can come up with other ideas where they may be in breech and made to stop further action

Disfordarkchocolate · 15/04/2019 07:54

There is always the change that the CF will contact the tree officer if things don't go their way!

HotpotLawyer · 15/04/2019 08:13

OP: maybe you should buy the woodland owned by the other neighbours Grin. That would really piss off CF.

JohnRokesmith · 15/04/2019 08:31

As I understand it (and I admit that my knowledge of law is sketchy at best), the land has to have been openly and obviously tended with the knowledge of the owner - an owner who has not bothered to tell the user to bugger off - for 12 years before possession can be claimed.

That’s not quite true. One route to adverse possession is to possess land for the requisite period with the knowledge of the owner, but without objection, including without objection when the application for adverse possession being made. The RP doesn’t need to know that the land is occupied, however, and many adverse possession claims are made on the basis the land has been abandoned by the RP.

(This is a bit of a simplification, of course. It doesn’t, for instance, take into account one of the more common forms of adverse possession, when a person occupies land in the mistaken belief that they are the proprietor.)

Sindragosan · 15/04/2019 08:48

Contacting the TPO should help your case - its another place to have on record that you own it and object to the neighbor's grabby behaviour. A visit from the TPO might show your neighbor's that you're not just going to give them the woodland and are serious about keeping it.

Hellbentwellwent · 15/04/2019 09:10

Before you contact the tree officer would it be an idea to write to the solicitor and ask what exactly the CF have done to he land that they feel qualified them as having tended to it? Then you’d have in writing (if they bite) what clearing they have done so you have written evidence that they took action without your consent. They may feel it would be strengthening their own case but actually would give you back up to challenge them?

RevRichardWayneGaryWayne · 15/04/2019 10:05

If they've been cutting bits off your trees without permission is there the potential for criminal damage charges to be brought?

billybagpuss · 15/04/2019 10:09

I think you should contact the TPO, as it strengthens your case that you care about your woodland and the trees in it and fully acknowledge ownership of it. It also as a PP suggested means you can ask for advise.

BoreOfWhabylon · 15/04/2019 10:25
SparklesandFlowers · 15/04/2019 10:35

I'm definitely up for attending Twittlebee Fest 2019 in support! I can't believe the CFs. I'd also give some money if you crowdfunded for solicitor's fees; anything to stop these people just claiming your land!

Evalina · 15/04/2019 12:28

Sorry if I've missed this, but has he fenced between his property and the woodland? If so and there's a gate, I'd be inclined to remove the gate and put it back on his property and fence across the gap. If not, then I'd put in a fence myself, to block direct access from his land to yours. I'd also then cut a gate in somewhere else to give you access - presumably from the road.

My understanding (although not legally qualified in any way), is that once something is physically attached to the land it becomes part of it, and the ownership of it runs with the land. Hence the fence belongs to you, and the gate probably to CF.

Logically, if someone put a fence in the middle of your garden while you were away, you wouldn't put up with it, and worry about taking it down.

The fence is worth keeping though, if only to keep them out. I'd consult your solicitor and see whether a better approach is to say that unless the fence is removed within 30 days, that you will be retaining ownership, and any attempt to remove it thereafter will be considered criminal damage.

That way CF doesn't have to do anything, and you've asserted your ownership of the fence.

cheeseypuff · 15/04/2019 13:58

Oh my goodness Twittlebee - I read your original post months ago & was hoping the CF had realised he was being just that & gone away! Hopefully some helpful advice on here & with the solicitor on board you can sort the whole thing out. I cannot believe the brass neck of some people though.
Congrats on the pregnancy & job though. Let's hope you can make it a hat trick this year & get your woods back! Keep us posted.

Brahumbug · 16/04/2019 11:25

I would put up a fence between the wood and their garden to exclude them. Cutting down the trees is criminal damage and if they have removed the chopped wood, it is theft, the police should then be involved.

shallichangemyname · 16/04/2019 12:08

Just a thought re photos.
I'm in Wales and the Welsh Govt has an official air photography dept with historical photos. We always get them when we deal with boundary/land disputes (I don't deal with these, a colleague does).
Find out what your English/local equivalent is and order them. They will add to your google earth ones nicely.

Weenurse · 17/04/2019 09:46

So sorry this is still going on.
Some excellent suggestions on how to proceed on this thread.
I would also like to join the camp out but I live in Australia, can I join in remotely?

Jimmers · 17/04/2019 11:07

I detest camping but would totally do it for Twittlebee wood!
Been watching your progress with interest & hope you get resolution soon.

MadSweeney · 17/04/2019 11:14

Twittle, can I suggest asking your local wildlife trust for a bit of help as well. As this is a natural area they might be able to offer advice.

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