To think pavement parking should be banned

[HoustonBess]

There's a government inquiry into pavement parking, you can submit comments here

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/pavement-parking-17-19/

I absolutely hate pavement parking - it's someone thinking their car not being scratched is more important than me and DD's lives. I live in an area of terraced streets and especially on bin days, you basically can't go out with a pram because it's so bad.

Anyone else want to comment for the inquiry? Maybe mumsnet could submit something on behalf of lots of people?

Trouble is....driving a car seems to trump all other considerations - cost, pollution, accidents

If you live and work rurally, you have no choice.

I have to have a car. It takes me 45 minutes to drive to work every morning - at a cost of about £30 a week on fuel (I have free parking at work).

My town has no bus station, so taking the bus isn't an option. I could take the train, but it would take me 4.5 hours, and I wouldn't get to work on time. If I got the earliest train possible, I'd get to work about 90 minutes late. If I wanted to get home on time, I'd need to leave work 4 hours early. It would also cost me £40 a day. I'm sure I could get a season ticket but it would still cost me triple what I pay in fuel.

Then you have to factor in that the trains don't run on Sundays or Bank Holidays (I work both) - so I'd still have to drive one day at an absolute minimum.

It's all very well saying that people who drive are selfish, but in rural locations it's really not that easy. I live in a town of about 16,000 people and the vast, vast majority drive to work. I don't know anyone who gets the train on a regular basis - the service costs an absolute fortune and is far too unreliable.

I have to be at work for 9.30am and I don't leave until 6. I can't work flex-time because I manage a shop and need to be there for open and close. Obviously I can't work from home for the same reason. I couldn't do my job without my car.

On the flip side, I can't afford to move any closer to where I work, because the Lake District is a bloody expensive place to live. The locals are driven out of the tourist towns due to the stupid costs of housing - the vast majority of people who work in hospitality, retail and tourism in the Lakes cannot afford to live there.

I wish our countries would stop wasting time and money (directly and indirectly) on Brexit start making life better for all of us including significantly improving public transport and the related infrastructure. It would make such a difference to those with disabilities those with lower incomes, the local, national and global environment and the pavements.

I walk when I can because I hate driving, it is stressful and painful but I have to drive sometimes because there is no other option, I can't be the only one, only a minority of people can actually enjoy driving.

To say people need to make different choices presumes people had a choice to make in the first place.

People nearly always have choices, where they live what job they have how they travel. Not easy choices true, but that's the point. We can't go on as we are.

yes... Allow only people who have enough money to afford a drive to own cars🙄
Fucking hell. Screw families, tradesmen, people in areas with crap public transport. 🙄

Yes that's exactly what I said. Hyperbole much?

People nearly always have choices, where they live what job they have how they travel. Not easy choices true, but that's the point. We can't go on as we are.

Ah, come on, realistically, there isn't much choice for a lot of people. Working for minimum wage won't get you a house with off-road parking. Nor will it allow you to have the spare cash every month to buy season tickets for public transport.

I can drive to/from work (90 minutes total a day) for £30. Just one of those journeys (as in, one way) would cost me £24 on public transport. It's just not affordable - nor is it practical. The public transport option would take me 4 hours (on a good day) for starters.

Society needs people to work in low-paid jobs. We need people working in supermarkets and shops, in bars, restaurants and pubs. All those jobs involve low pay and antisocial hours (meaning public transport often isn't running - even if it is affordable). Those workers still need homes. They still need to be able to get their kids to school and themselves to work everyday.

Until public transport becomes more universal and something accessible to everyone, it's simply not fair (or logical) to blame people for using their cars.

£30 a week that should say - that's all I pay in fuel.

@LordWheresMyShoes

End the fudge where cars just prop a couple of wheels up on the kerb

Why, when in some places it really is the best solution?

If there's really enough space then you could trim the bit off the pavement to make the road wider, or at least paint it to show where cars could go. If not then that bit of pavement is needed for pedestrian safety.

Society needs people to do the essential basic jobs, low skilled unrewarding boring jobs with no prospects, but if those jobs don't pay enough for people to live a decent life.... well haven't we got things a bit wrong, don't we need to incentivise them with higher wages?

The thing is most of the problems people are using to justify why they need to park on footpaths to the detriment of people less able than them affect a minority of drivers. The majority of pavement parkers can walk, can get public transport to work, can find safe parking within reasonable walking distance, even in the northern towns. I know this because I live in a northern town. Tesco have an enormous car park that always empty. Boy racers use two thirds of it because there are never cars on it. I'm sure Tesco would be savvy enough to start introducing overnight parking for a fee. Ditto Asda and the multi-storey. There are streets that are wide enough to have cars parked on. There are houses that have double garages and a drive and people who have a garage and no car. Sure, some people might have to park their car ten or so minutes away but if that means the residents I work with can safely navigate the footpaths then so fucking what. Drivers are not more important than everyone else no matter what they like to believe.

If pavements are wide then parking bays should be cut into them

Or paint markings on the pavement showing where you can park. The path in my road is ridiculously wide and very few people have drives (and those that do don't always use them!)). To park completely in the road would make it worse than it already is so some painted lines would do the job. I'd rather that than the council waste money reducing the pavement.

Society needs people to do the essential basic jobs, low skilled unrewarding boring jobs with no prospects, but if those jobs don't pay enough for people to live a decent life.... well haven't we got things a bit wrong, don't we need to incentivise them with higher wages?

They should be paid better, but in reality that's not going to happen. So the cycle continues. People who work poorly paid jobs can't afford to live in the cities/towns they work in, so they move out rurally so they can buy a house - however, this means they can't afford the ludicrous cost of public transport to get them to work. So they drive.

It's especially a problem in tourist areas. I work in the Lake District but there's absolutely no way I could afford to live there - and I earn above the minimum wage. Housing costs in tourist locations are way out of the price range of the locals who work to provide service to millions of tourists every year. Most people I know who work in retail or hospitality in the Lakes drive in everyday - anything from 20 to 60+ minutes each way. The few who don't are lucky enough to have council accommodation nearby, or they rent a room above a cafe - hardly possible for couples with families.

Drivers are not more important than everyone else no matter what they like to believe.

Nobody on here has even hinted that they think this way

But they are hinting they are more important @adaline. This thread is filled with excuse after excuse as to why some drivers need to obstruct the pedestrian footpath to the detriment of those who need to use it with sight dogs, wheelchairs or prams suggesting those people think their need to obstruct the footpath is more important than those who need to use safely.

It's disgusting, frankly. Walk to the bus stop, campaign for better public transport links but don't fight for you right to hinder others who are less fortunate than yourself.

And the public transport issue, the only reason it is being slashed to the bone is that no-one is using it. If people started using it more often more services would be put on to handle demand.

I was stood on a pavement just the other week, a car mounted it and the driver actually beeped their horn for me to move out of the way and I almost did move!

I dont drive anymore. Too stressful and prefer to walk when i can. Not sure but i think it is illegal to 'drive' on a pavement/footpath anyway. Mounting a pavement to park involves driving on one technically? It is also illegal to cause an 'obstruction' on a pavement?

Hope the law is clarified and that there is a blanket ban soon. Pavements are for pedestrians not cars.

They'll never police it. Our town is full of illegal parking, the school is a death trap with all the double yellow lines parking.

It's disgusting, frankly. Walk to the bus stop, campaign for better public transport links but don't fight for you right to hinder others who are less fortunate than yourself.

I'm not doing that at all. I'm saying a blanket ban isn't appropriate unless there are other options.

As for "walk to the bus stop" - the nearest one that gets me anywhere close to where I need to go is 15 miles away!

Tesco have an enormous car park that always empty.

3 hours parking in Tesco here or you are fined.

Wait until you have learnt to drive. Then come back and tell us where all of these hundreds of available parking places are.

And also tell us how you get on getting a plumber, decorator, builder etc to do any work on your house when he has to either park a 20 minute walk away and carry all his tools to you or bring them round on his bike.

drivers are not more important than everyone else
I agree with you but society is set up such that the car is king, cars dominate, they prevail they slaughter people we cross the road at our peril
people identify with their cars, they become extensions of our bodies our personal private spaces which we defend.
People express themselves through their cars they advertise their status via their cars, cars are sold to us as freedom and autonomy
All the terrible carnage and pollution the obesity that results from never walking anywhere, all that is swept under the carpet and the car remains king

I’m tempted to do an experiment. Next time I need to park not in my drive, I’ll park on the road not my land which was a “pavement”.

I predict it will be 30 minutes before the pavement opposite is fully blocked.

I agree that pavements are for pedestrians and I also no longer drive but it seems to me that car drivers regard pavements as margins which they can spill over onto when they need to
pedestrians are a nuisance who try to impede the progress of cars, what kind of poor lowly person would want to walk anywhere anyway, can't you see how big and important I am in my big important expensive vehicle

I know this because I live in a northern town. Tesco have an enormous car park that always empty. Boy racers use two thirds of it because there are never cars on it. I'm sure Tesco would be savvy enough to start introducing overnight parking for a fee. Ditto Asda and the multi-storey.

Tesco fine you here if you park for more than three hours. There are no multi-storey car parks. Hell, there aren't even any normal "free" car parks in my town. If you want to go to the shops, you either walk, or drive and park on the street - which again is timed, or you need a permit (which you can only get if you live on that specific street).

Huge parts of the country have little/no public transport. People live rurally and have to get to work, the shops, school, the doctors - you can only walk to the bus stop if there is one, and if the bus actually goes where you need it to, when you need to get there.

Do any of the drivers who need to park on the footpaths because their special circumstances mean they couldn't possibly park anywhere else have any suggestions as to what could be done other than 'fuck the disabled people I need to park on the footpath and I'm more important'?

@Hearhere
Well said.
I'm amazed at just how ugly and tank like cars are these days. As if the drivers almost have a siege mentality. Big tank like car means they are safe from the pedestrian hoards, who might launch an attack any minute. Throw shopping or a buggy at them. So they hunker down in their armoured vehicles. Sat above and away, at a safe reinforced distance, from the nasty 'peasant wagon' people.
They do look rather silly sometimes

Do any of the drivers who need to park on the footpaths because their special circumstances mean they couldn't possibly park anywhere else have any suggestions as to what could be done other than 'fuck the disabled people I need to park on the footpath and I'm more important'?

I can absolutely guarantee without doubt that nobody in a wheelchair/with a pram/sight impairment would be walking where I - rarely - park my car so I don’t need to consider it really.

I’m far more concerned about pressuring the local council to keep the pavement on the other side maintained properly and safely.

@adaline

So, people with restricted mobility can just get to fuck then?

You choose to live there, despite it being unsuitable. But a wheelchair user can be left isolated or out of pocket because they can't get out and about. Or do you think they should move somewhere else so that you can take the car right to your door. I refuse to believe there is nowhere in your town which has homes available with a driveway.

Likewise here. The pavements are plenty wide enough. You could park the whole car on the pavement and they would still be wide enough but we are only allowed 2 wheels. You can easily walk 3 prams abreast. No reason to block the road by keeping very wide pavements car free.