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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why people still bet on the grand national

368 replies

Springtime336 · 05/04/2019 22:54

-2 horses have already died at ladies day

  • approx 200-250 horses die every year in the uk in horse racing
Really sad Sad
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ForalltheSaints · 06/04/2019 08:44

Ignorance of what happens plays a part.

Molecule · 06/04/2019 09:08

These threads come up every year. Dd1 works in racing and exh bred national hunt horses. The horses are much loved, and certainly those running in the Grand National love racing. There is no way you can force a horse to jump such fences without it wanting to. The best one we bred in his latter years of racing, would only deign to run at Cheltenham and Aintree, anywhere else he would refuse to start.

Go to any horse sale and you will see numerous, poor quality, neglected cobs going for slaughter. Should all cob breeding be banned as far too many are being bred to what purpose? There is far more cruelty at the bottom end of the equine world than the elite top. That is not to say there is no cruelty in racing, and in every walk of life there are always going to be hard bastards, but the vast majority are in it for the love of horses and the sport (and definitely not the money, most owners will not even break even).

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 09:11

The use of the whip plays a part in forcing horses to do what they don’t want to do

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Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 09:14

To think that money doesn’t play a part is being in denial

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RestingBitchFaced · 06/04/2019 09:21

If it was a slow decline or if things were made safer, that would be a start . It just continues year after year despite the cruelty and deaths

There have been no deaths in the grand national race since 2012, safety IS improving.

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 09:23

Still 200-250 deaths in horse racing in uk per year is not acceptable Sad

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kikisparks · 06/04/2019 09:26

At the end of the day it comes down to whether a sentient being should be a commodity, to be bred and used and killed at the whim of humans, or if they should be free, which yes might involve some pain and suffering but it will not be at our hands.

Obviously we can’t just release all the domestic horses we already have but we can stop breeding them.

LunaLunitaLunera · 06/04/2019 09:27

It doesn't matter how much the horses are loved. They are there for to for a sport which profits off betting. The life of a racing horse is a gilded cage. And I say that as someone who worked for Kalid bin Abdullah Al Saud for a long time.
I was the young starry eyed Groom petting them in their stable, it didn't stop the intense breeding, or them being put down due to broken legs. Once there of no use they are tossed away. It's not a pretty industry I'm afraid.

LunaLunitaLunera · 06/04/2019 09:29

*At the end of the day it comes down to whether a sentient being should be a commodity, to be bred and used and killed at the whim of humans, or if they should be free, which yes might involve some pain and suffering but it will not be at our hands.

Obviously we can’t just release all the domestic horses we already have but we can stop breeding them*

kiki sums it up perfectly.

Fiveredbricks · 06/04/2019 09:35

The National provides a huge annual boost to the NW economy. Most of us are proud of it locally. We understand the cruelty aspect of it but we also understand the effort the racecourse now put in to making the course safer for the horses year in, year out.

These horses are bred for the Races. Without horse racing they simply wouldn't exist. So you can say it's cruel all you want. Racing is what stops horses from eventually becoming a novelty animal in a zoo exhibit.

I'd be more concerned about all of the riding "schools" up and down the country - who expose their horses to carrying people far outside of their weight limit for excessive hours day in, day out. That imo is much, much more cruel.

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 09:44

I don’t think there are any excuses for the cruelty
It’s awful and so sad

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CalmDownPacino · 06/04/2019 09:45

Supporters of the GN say much the same as supporters of greyhound racing. "Oh but they love their animals". Being involved in greyhound rescue I can fully assure you that this is not the case. They do not love them.

Always going to be people who justify it. As long as we get to dress up nicely and get drunk, who cares if animals die eh.

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 09:55

Well said

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Brilliantidiot · 06/04/2019 10:17

I do have some issues with racing, and the grand national itself. I politely declined taking part in the sweepstake at work and I won't be watching it.
What worries me is the lack of awareness of the real issues in racing and the equine world in general, and the misinformation that's said every year at this time, about racing, and that people are concerned because of the wrong things. I'm not explaining this very well, it's hard to get across, but for example

"They just shoot them if they break a leg! Just because they won't race
and make money again! Shooting them is barbaric!"
While in a small number of cases that may be the reason, for the vast majority it's for the animals welfare. I've seen several horses break legs in my life around them, only one had a person anywhere near it. Horses are act first and think later if at all and just react. It happens in the stable, in the field racing round like idiots because it's spring and they're having a mad half hour, being kicked by another horse, slipping or tripping over in the field. Every horse bar one was PTS immediately on the advice of the vet, because recovery would have been excruciatingly painful, very distressing and had a very, very low probability that the horse would ever be strong enough to be out in a field with it's friends for the rest of it's life - it wouldn't have coped with the Argy bargy of herd life. They'd have been isolated, miserable and it would have been cruel. The one horse that a vet thought stood a good chance rebroke the leg trying to get out of box rest because it was distressed and had cabin fever. Was PTS 3 weeks later. And there is a trend nowadays for using a lethal injection over a bolt gun, however having witnessed horses fighting the injection when it first became available, it was horrendous. I've sadly seen quite a few horses PTS and without a doubt, the bolt was the less distressing for the horse. I've only seen one horse go peacefully with the injection. It was a few years ago, so things may have improved, but when my old boy had had enough, I chose the bolt. He was gone with no idea and no distress. It was horrendous for me to watch (no way I was leaving him) but it wasn't about me.

Another huge thing for me is the age they're broken and race from, I know they're faster as youngsters, but it puts so much stress on developing limbs and systems, and that affects them their whole lives.

My other big issue is how ex racers, or those not fast enough are treated. Ex racers are specialist, they're not your average horse, yet often are sold very cheaply or given away to people who have no idea how to deal with an off the track, highly strung thoroughbred. They're not looked after properly, not handled or retrained properly and passed from home to home getting a reputation for being dangerous as they go.
That said, a trainer near me rehomes their retired horses to vetted and approved homes only, and they check, and take the horse back if needed. There are also wonderful sanctuaries and individuals that rehabilitate ex racers, and the organisation charity ROR do wonderful things.

However, horses that are badly treated day to day, will not race effectively. Horses need to be relaxed and happy to perform at their best, and to be a successful race horse, they need to be in peak health and that's not easy with a horse as any owners will tell you! They have the best of everything, from bedding, to rugs, to feed, to care - without it they wouldn't do what they do because they wouldn't thrive.

It's also incredibly hard to force a horse to do anything, their size, weight and power dictate that. Yes whips play a part, but you go at a horse with a whip and try and keep hold of it, or stay on it, it'd be nigh on impossible. And again, an abused horse would not be effective in racing, they'd be scared and difficult to handle, not ideal for getting into and out of gates etc and stressed, which affects horses a lot physically.

There are also many, many examples of cruelty in the horse world, horses that live day in and day out without the basics they need. Or whose owners are causing suffering and slowly killing them with kindness. Other disciplines have horrible practices - Rollkur in dressage for one.

I'd like to see welfare in all equine areas improved, in racing I'd like to see the fences smaller, and training started later, as well as more responsibility towards retired horses, less breeding too.
Racing is a huge industry, I think to ban it is unrealistic, but to make it safer and more accountable, would sit better with me.

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 10:24

Yes, even if it isn’t banned , it could be made safer and kinder . I dont buy it that you can’t force horses to do anything And I also know someone who rescues horses who are trained far too young and end up with horrific injuries
Ideally a ban would be good , but for a start it could be better regulated

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Brilliantidiot · 06/04/2019 10:46

@Springtime336

There's a really good saying in the horse world
'Train a horse with fear and there will always be something he fears more than you, train it with trust and he'll look to you when he's scared'
It's not impossible to force a horse to do something, but it creates a horse that isn't going to be a good racehorse, or in fact good at anything to do with humans - effectively it's been trained to be scared of humans and will be difficult, if not dangerous in it's attempts to get away/fight back against humans.

Brilliantidiot · 06/04/2019 10:46

@Springtime336

There's a really good saying in the horse world
'Train a horse with fear and there will always be something he fears more than you, train it with trust and he'll look to you when he's scared'
It's not impossible to force a horse to do something, but it creates a horse that isn't going to be a good racehorse, or in fact good at anything to do with humans - effectively it's been trained to be scared of humans and will be difficult, if not dangerous in it's attempts to get away/fight back against humans.

YesQueen · 06/04/2019 10:47

@FamilyOfAliens of course. But i would rather my own horse went like that than a prolonged illness

YesQueen · 06/04/2019 10:49

@Springtime336 the whip doesn't. I ride with a whip and spurs and if my horse doesn't want to do anything, no amount of using them will make her budge
A lot of the time they are showing the whip rather than using it, or it's slapping on their boot to make a noise

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 10:55

If they are showing the whip or making a loud noise with it that proves it is to instill fear
I’ll never agree with use of the whip
It clearly is used to force horses to do things

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YesQueen · 06/04/2019 10:57

A whip can be used for a number of things. I use mine to replace my right leg as I can't use it properly. I use it to brush flies off her ears, she is in no way scared of it
I use spurs for more refined aids

Brilliantidiot · 06/04/2019 11:09

If they are showing the whip or making a loud noise with it that proves it is to instill fear
I’ll never agree with use of the whip
It clearly is used to force horses to do things

A whip, used correctly, is about getting the horses attention, not forcing anything.
My old horse and his field mate used to get excited sometimes at bringing in food time and they're like giddy kids when they get like that. I used to shout at them or bang the gate to get their attention, they got so excited they charged round putting us all at risk, at the loud noise they'd stop and look at me - thus getting their attention.
Lunge whips work in the same way - they crack against themselves to make a noise to get the horses attention. Racing whips are flat, they make noise to gain the horses attention. Schooling whips are long and thin, with a toggle at the end, used to touch (tickle, not hit) in sensitive places to gain attention.
Spurs are for refinement.
It's much kinder to use a soft touch of a whip or spurs than keep booting a horse in the ribs.

FamilyOfAliens · 06/04/2019 11:16

I guess if you have to use an implement to get an animal to do something it doesn’t feel inclined to do, that’s a sign it’s not as natural as supporters would suggest.

Springtime336 · 06/04/2019 11:17

Whether booting a horse in the ribs , or whipping- I still don’t agree with either . In the grand national, clearly the whip is used to make the horse go faster to make huge profits out of the animal
If you don’t think that the grand national is cruel , just google some pictures of falls at the jumps
That’s part of your evidence

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imamearcat · 06/04/2019 15:57

If they didn't race they wouldn't exist to being with. They have a good quality of life. Yes accidents happen but when they do they are dealt with as humanly as possible.

Given the choice, would you rather not live at all because there was a tiny chance you may have a fatal accident at some point in your career?