To wonder why people still bet on the grand national

[Springtime336]

-2 horses have already died at ladies day

• approx 200-250 horses die every year in the uk in horse racing

Really sad

@MoonStarsSun because I don't see at as drastically any different to any other form of horse riding. It all contains some form of risk. Even your most basic happy hacker puts their horse under a huge amount of risk if they have to go on the road!

You could avoid accidents by going round in a school all day but you know, horses aren't meant to go round in circles so then are at risk of developing problems and subsequently being PTS.

I believe in quality of life.

@KissingInTheRain em nope if you read everything else I wrote you’d see veganism is about defending victims. I’m sure slave owners thought that abolitionists were just trying to preach and spoil their profits/ fun but now looking through an objective lens we can see things differently.

You can call me names on a forum, it’s not very nice but whatever. It’s nothing compared to the what the animals are going through being tortured and killed every day. I’ll stand up for them and if that makes me a preachy maniac in your eyes so be it.

Yes bread, complete denial is how the ‘devout’ react to criticism of their faith.

No. Your comment was just a load of bollocks.

I just gave you an answer. You just don’t like it.

But I’ll spell it out for you. Animals are not humans. The two cannot be compared. It would be odd and unpleasant to equate the death of a person with the death of an animal.

I expect you agree.

No. Your comment was just a load of bollocks.

The word you’re looking for is ‘heresy’.

@imamearcat I know, looking back I can’t believe I used to call myself an animal lover and then climb on an animal’s back and kick it but I don’t mind admitting I did it, it maybe helps others to see that I’m not here to shame anyone, and that it’s ok to question your choices and to change if they don’t align with your values.

@KissingInTheRain I actually do value human life more than animal life but i recognise that logically it’s not really a sensible position, why are we inherently more valuable? What makes our lives more important?

The word you’re looking for is ‘heresy’.

No, it's really not. Bollocks is just fine.

@MoonStarsSun we don't eat children, so it is a bit different?

But generally I tend to treat my horses and kids the same TBH! With kindness and respect, but I expect my kids to go to school and learn and I expect my horses to do a few hours work a week in return for their keep. They don't have it so bad.

I put my kids 'at risk' every time we walk out of the front door. Cruelty is different to risk.

Kissing It's perfectly possible (and not at all odd or unpleasant) to feel abhorrence for the harm at the hands of others to both children and animals.

@kikisparks maybe you just weren't I very good rider? i don't do that much kicking.

It’s not about logic. It’s about who we are.

If you want to be logical, why be bothered about animals’ lives at all? As it happens, being normal, and therefore emotional as well as logical, I’m opposed to animal cruelty. But racing, putting dogs to work, humanely farming animals, eating meat, killing vermin etc etc are neither cruel (by sensible definitions) nor gratuitous.

No, it's really not. Bollocks is just fine.

Honestly, it is a better word for what you’re struggling to say. And it’s shorter.

Honestly, it is a better word for what you’re struggling to say. And it’s shorter.

I'm trying to say Bollocks. So the word Bollocks works for me. Everyone reading the thread will know what I am saying when I use the word Bollocks. I'm happy with that.

ima "We don't eat children, so it is a bit different?" say what?

And "work" in return for their "keep"?

OK. You stick with bollocks.

I’ll stick to thinking your animal worship is a form of religious mania.

But racing, putting dogs to work, humanely farming animals, eating meat, killing vermin etc etc are neither cruel (by sensible definitions) nor gratuitous.

Of course these things are cruel. People justify them and that's because animals can't talk. It's as simple as that.

I’ll stick to thinking your animal worship is a form of religious mania.

You might do well to have a bit of a clue what you are talking about 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MoonStarsSun yes work for their keep, why not? I have a work a hell of a lot of hours, my kids have to 'work' in learning to eventually have to earn their keep.

We're not talking black beauty style, pounding the streets, pulling a cart, 'work' here are we. At most any horse might do an hours 'work' per day. Of which they would hopefully find enjoyable. People mostly don't keep horses as a field ornament.

I can’t understand people not being affected by the cruelty Horses are sentient

I can’t understand people only being affected by it once a year.

People justify them and that's because animals can't talk. It's as simple as that.

This is another aspect of the attraction of animal welfare religion. Animals can’t tell animal lovers they don’t like them, just like they can’t tell lies and they can’t betray. That’s why animal lovers fixate on them.

It’s a lot easier than dealing with humans.

You might do well to have a bit of a clue what you are talking about

Stick to bollocks. It at least had a certain snap about it.

Of course the GN is wicked. The reason so many people only speak out against that race is because in general that's the only race that really enters the general public's consciousness and the fences are shocking.

The whole racing industry is cruel. Horses are ridden when not even 2 years old and 'wastage' is high with huge numbers of surplus animals being slaughtered. In the case of the GN, not even being the winner prevents the horse from a nasty fate which has affected several winning horses. Just 3 relatively recent examples: Hallo Dandy was found in a field in a horrendous state of neglect, Seagram was shot not long after retirement from racing despite apparently being in full health and Many Clouds dropped dead on the track after winning a race.

Whether it's an unwanted horse that will never even get to race or a champion, there is no guarantee of a good life for any horse unfortunate to be born into the racing industry. The existence of other forms of cruelty to animals doesn't change that.

It's actually flat horses who are ridden at 'not even two' not national hunt horses. They also often retire at 3!

Are they all not part of the industry imamearcat? And many horses originally trained for the flat become NH horses. They are not discrete branches of racing.